Good article about the "Viper Law"

Max Kennerly of the Beasley Firm wrote a good article about the "Viper Law" that I thought you guys might enjoy:

http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2012/02/articles/attorney/civil-rights-1/sympathy-for-the-devil/

Pretty interesting write up.

A. Jordan Rushie
Fishtown Neighbors Association - Vice President
2424 East York Street, Suite 316
Philadelphia, PA 19125 215.385.LAW1 (5291)
Blog: www.phillylawblog.com
Website: www.fishtownlaw.com

GPI's picture

Don't violate the UFA and municipal governments have nothing to fear. Not that difficult to understand. Many of these boroughs and townships have been approached by us and asked to remove their illegal ordinances. After a simple check by their solicitor, most comply with this rather simple request.

The more stubborn ones will unfortunately need to be taken to task after this bill passes.

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Jordan's picture

GPI wrote:
Don't violate the UFA and municipal governments have nothing to fear. Not that difficult to understand. Many of these boroughs and townships have been approached by us and asked to remove their illegal ordinances. After a simple check by their solicitor, most comply with this rather simple request.

The more stubborn ones will unfortunately need to be taken to task after this bill passes.

Yeah but did you read Max's point? You can pretty much kill someone in Pennsylvania and you won't get those kind of damages.

A. Jordan Rushie
Fishtown Neighbors Association - Vice President
2424 East York Street, Suite 316
Philadelphia, PA 19125 215.385.LAW1 (5291)
Blog: www.phillylawblog.com
Website: www.fishtownlaw.com

Jordan's picture

And for the record, I agree with Viper in principle.

A. Jordan Rushie
Fishtown Neighbors Association - Vice President
2424 East York Street, Suite 316
Philadelphia, PA 19125 215.385.LAW1 (5291)
Blog: www.phillylawblog.com
Website: www.fishtownlaw.com

GPI's picture

Jordan wrote:
And for the record, I agree with Viper in principle.

Yikes!!! You must be one of those paranoid gun nuts!!! :)

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

GPI's picture

Jordan wrote:
GPI wrote:
Don't violate the UFA and municipal governments have nothing to fear. Not that difficult to understand. Many of these boroughs and townships have been approached by us and asked to remove their illegal ordinances. After a simple check by their solicitor, most comply with this rather simple request.

The more stubborn ones will unfortunately need to be taken to task after this bill passes.

Yeah but did you read Max's point? You can pretty much kill someone in Pennsylvania and you won't get those kind of damages.

This law needed some real teeth to discourage law breaking councils and supervisors from passing unconstitutional ordinances.

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Jordan's picture

GPI wrote:
Jordan wrote:
GPI wrote:
Don't violate the UFA and municipal governments have nothing to fear. Not that difficult to understand. Many of these boroughs and townships have been approached by us and asked to remove their illegal ordinances. After a simple check by their solicitor, most comply with this rather simple request.

The more stubborn ones will unfortunately need to be taken to task after this bill passes.

Yeah but did you read Max's point? You can pretty much kill someone in Pennsylvania and you won't get those kind of damages.

This law needed some real teeth to discourage law breaking councils and supervisors from passing unconstitutional ordinances.

Let's get something straight. I agree. I carry - legally. A Glock 27. It's always on me, and I support our 2nd Amendment rights.

That said, Max makes a pretty good point. A corporation can pretty much kill someone without big ramifications, but if I get busted for carrying my Glock, I can get a substantial amount of damages.

Again, I'm pretty much as "pro gun" as you can get.

A. Jordan Rushie
Fishtown Neighbors Association - Vice President
2424 East York Street, Suite 316
Philadelphia, PA 19125 215.385.LAW1 (5291)
Blog: www.phillylawblog.com
Website: www.fishtownlaw.com

GPI's picture

Jordan wrote:
GPI wrote:
Jordan wrote:
GPI wrote:
Don't violate the UFA and municipal governments have nothing to fear. Not that difficult to understand. Many of these boroughs and townships have been approached by us and asked to remove their illegal ordinances. After a simple check by their solicitor, most comply with this rather simple request.

The more stubborn ones will unfortunately need to be taken to task after this bill passes.

Yeah but did you read Max's point? You can pretty much kill someone in Pennsylvania and you won't get those kind of damages.

This law needed some real teeth to discourage law breaking councils and supervisors from passing unconstitutional ordinances.

Let's get something straight. I agree. I carry - legally. A Glock 27. It's always on me, and I support our 2nd Amendment rights.

That said, Max makes a pretty good point. A corporation can pretty much kill someone without big ramifications, but if I get busted for carrying my Glock, I can get a substantial amount of damages.

Again, I'm pretty much as "pro gun" as you can get.

You'll only receive substantial damages if the police violate your civil rights in a very bad way. Many suits similar to Vipers have settled in the 15-30k range. It's more about keeping the police in line and honoring our rights. There aren't huge windfalls in suits like Vipers.

As far as the bill goes, I worked in Harrisburg with several representatives to craft the language. The author totally misrepresents what this bill is about. No one will become a millionaire because of it. You should read the actual language in the bill.

Once this passes we will canvass the state and request that these townships, cities, and boroughs all repeal their illegal ordinances. At that point, simple compliance will result in minimal cost, maybe a few hours for their solicitors to redraft the ordinance or remove it all together.

The obstinate ones will be taking a calculated gamble if they want to leave a potentially illegal ordinance on the books. We would then sue to have it removed and let the chips fall where they may. All we have ever wanted was our day in court before the PASC to rule if lost and stolen is constitutional. They wiggled out by claiming we had no standing. That will not happen this time. If groups like CeaseLiar feel their ordinance will pass constitutional muster, what are they afraid of if this bill passes and we finally get some case law to support the validity of it.

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Kenzo's picture

I don't carry openly. I also don't carry at all during daylight hours and don't really see a need to carry one most of the time that I let my carry license lapse. I just haven't gotten into a situation where I've been mugged, and I've been in every single neighborhood in Philadelphia. I know where to go and where not to go and at what hours. I'm a pretty good judge of who is cray-cray and should be avoided. Some people call it "street smarts". Does that make me immune? Nope.

I do own guns and I will defend my house. It's hard to escape when someone's B/E in your house and it's kinda hard to escape if they're on the first floor and I'm upstairs or downstairs. On the same token, my home is secure and I do what I can to make it undesirable to break into.

I do know plenty of people who have had violent caca happen to them, including in Phila. I think there's more effective ways of combating crime than a hot shot flashing a piece for everyone to see when they stop by an auto parts store in Upper Torresdale.

How many gun nuts want to go with me digging through code violation files on slumlords who rent to craptastic people who wreck neighborhoods and ruin the quality of life? How many gun nuts want to put $800 a pop to send off a nuisance property to Sheriff's Sale using an assumed name, a forwarded phone and hope-and-pray that the occupants of the property and the neighborhood doesn't find out who sent them to Sheriff's Sale before the Sheriff gets around to clearing the house out... plus all those months you have to wait to get your deposit back?

How many gun nuts know the tricks of the trade to get rid of junkie squatters when the police have their hands tied? How many gun nuts are tearing down dilapidated property and rehabilitating neighborhoods infested with crime?

Some, but not many. This is my belief: the world around you when you step out of your house is governed mainly by the physical environment that surrounds you. If you got a ton of vacant shells, people not taking care of their properties and a City government that mostly ignores you---crime will naturally be higher. Openly carrying won't really change the level of crime around you. It may protect you when it crosses your path, but it doesn't lower the risk.

Seriously... when you get rid of a drug house where some or all of the occupants inside are committing nearby burglaries, one or more of them have a firearm and they're up to cray-cray stuff... when you get rid of them it really has a huge impact on the level of crime immediately around you and all the blocks surrounding you.

Don't worry, these folks have places to go. There's plenty of craptastic jawn in Croydon and Bristol and foreclosures in Bensalem opening up by white people who shot the middle finger to the City years ago, then traded their paid-for house in Phila and got their ticket out with a sub-prime mortgage. All of that bunch cried their eyes out, torpedoed their credit, pulled the bankruptcy lever and are stuck in the rental system or living in ma's basement.

Those houses are now open to receive the chaff of society that's been moving in to those townships the last 4 years. So instead of ex-white people from Philly moving in, now it's a multicultural smorgasbord of people coming up to take the investor rentals and they're bringing all their Jerry Springer drama with them.

I will laugh when it starts happening to Huntingdon Valley PA, which has the highest concentration of Philly slumloard property owners over all other townships close to Philadelphia.

THAT is way more effective at dealing with crime around you than more guns and more cops. It stops it before it even has a chance to start.

My solution to Philadelphia's violent crime problem? Export the problem to the rich suburbs who haven't had to pay to deal with this problem and were more than happy to contain it in Philadelphia County. It's called "spreading the love".

I see my plan is already taking hold in Delaware County. What used to be contained in Darby has jumped the shark all the way over to Glenolden and "the creep" is inching its way to the edge Prospect Park now. Oh yeah, the lovely oxycontin ring at the Boeing plant last summer--all of them pill poppers between Marcus Hook and Swarthmore. Lovely bunch of society and they're getting to be more representative of your average Delco resident by the day. Let the folks up in West Chester pay to police that.

I also saw the Youtube video of the Lower Merion kids getting high. Lovely bunch of children they are. It would be a shame to see Bala-Cynwyd turn into a scatological lollapalooza full of exported problems from Philly.

Something happened in 2007 and now suburban white kids want to be like Andy Reid's children. Looks like my plan is working.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

bozoloper's picture

Jordan wrote:

Let's get something straight. I agree. I carry - legally. A Glock 27. It's always on me, and I support our 2nd Amendment rights.

does this include the bar? i was under the impression drinking with a fire arm was considered bad form. isn't using one if you're intoxicated illegal?

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

Kenzo's picture

No. You can carry in bars across the entire Commonwealth. We're not the only state that permits this.

There's been enough successful self-defense cases occurring in bars run through the media that the argument for carrying while in a bar has some legs. It's even happened to cops in Philly who were off-duty. McNally's, a cop bar up in Mayfair, was robbed by some dummies not knowing the lay of the land in the NE and which bars are crawling with off-duties.

I always called that bar "the safest place to drink in 19149".

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

bozoloper's picture

Kenzo wrote:
No. You can carry in bars across the entire Commonwealth. We're not the only state that permits this.

oh, i know you can. i was talking in a broader sense of "responsible gun ownership". say you're going out on a friday with full intent to get trashed. isn't kind of like the designated driver idea? if you feel that someone in the group needs a gun, shouldn't that person keep it to a drink or two? if you know you're going to get loaded shouldn't you leave the gun behind?

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

codergrrl's picture

Just ask Plaxico Burress....its a great idea to carry in the club.

"Je Suis Prest"

Jordan's picture

bozoloper wrote:
Jordan wrote:

Let's get something straight. I agree. I carry - legally. A Glock 27. It's always on me, and I support our 2nd Amendment rights.

does this include the bar? i was under the impression drinking with a fire arm was considered bad form. isn't using one if you're intoxicated illegal?

It's not illegal, but if you are intoxicated, a fight breaks out, and you shoot someone, you're going to have some issues.

If the intent is to get trashed, I wouldn't carry. Probably not necessary in any case, because you would most likely be with a group.

A. Jordan Rushie
Fishtown Neighbors Association - Vice President
2424 East York Street, Suite 316
Philadelphia, PA 19125 215.385.LAW1 (5291)
Blog: www.phillylawblog.com
Website: www.fishtownlaw.com

bozoloper's picture

Jordan wrote:
bozoloper wrote:
Jordan wrote:

Let's get something straight. I agree. I carry - legally. A Glock 27. It's always on me, and I support our 2nd Amendment rights.

does this include the bar? i was under the impression drinking with a fire arm was considered bad form. isn't using one if you're intoxicated illegal?

It's not illegal, but if you are intoxicated, a fight breaks out, and you shoot someone, you're going to have some issues.

If the intent is to get trashed, I wouldn't carry. Probably not necessary in any case, because you would most likely be with a group.

that's always been why i've never had much of an interest in gun ownership. there's only been a few times where i've felt truly unsafe in this city. all of them, as far as i can remember, have involved coming home late at night by myself (the MFL owl is a great time). if i'm ever coming home from downtown that late i'm definitely pretty loaded. it just seems i'd be more likely to do something brash and get myself killed or hurt an innocent person than to just turn over my wallet and run like hell.

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

GPI's picture

Kenzo wrote:
I don't carry openly. I also don't carry at all during daylight hours and don't really see a need to carry one most of the time that I let my carry license lapse. I just haven't gotten into a situation where I've been mugged, and I've been in every single neighborhood in Philadelphia. I know where to go and where not to go and at what hours. I'm a pretty good judge of who is cray-cray and should be avoided. Some people call it "street smarts". Does that make me immune? Nope.

I do own guns and I will defend my house. It's hard to escape when someone's B/E in your house and it's kinda hard to escape if they're on the first floor and I'm upstairs or downstairs. On the same token, my home is secure and I do what I can to make it undesirable to break into.

I do know plenty of people who have had violent caca happen to them, including in Phila. I think there's more effective ways of combating crime than a hot shot flashing a piece for everyone to see when they stop by an auto parts store in Upper Torresdale.

How many gun nuts want to go with me digging through code violation files on slumlords who rent to craptastic people who wreck neighborhoods and ruin the quality of life? How many gun nuts want to put $800 a pop to send off a nuisance property to Sheriff's Sale using an assumed name, a forwarded phone and hope-and-pray that the occupants of the property and the neighborhood doesn't find out who sent them to Sheriff's Sale before the Sheriff gets around to clearing the house out... plus all those months you have to wait to get your deposit back?

How many gun nuts know the tricks of the trade to get rid of junkie squatters when the police have their hands tied? How many gun nuts are tearing down dilapidated property and rehabilitating neighborhoods infested with crime?

Some, but not many. This is my belief: the world around you when you step out of your house is governed mainly by the physical environment that surrounds you. If you got a ton of vacant shells, people not taking care of their properties and a City government that mostly ignores you---crime will naturally be higher. Openly carrying won't really change the level of crime around you. It may protect you when it crosses your path, but it doesn't lower the risk.

Seriously... when you get rid of a drug house where some or all of the occupants inside are committing nearby burglaries, one or more of them have a firearm and they're up to cray-cray stuff... when you get rid of them it really has a huge impact on the level of crime immediately around you and all the blocks surrounding you.

Don't worry, these folks have places to go. There's plenty of craptastic jawn in Croydon and Bristol and foreclosures in Bensalem opening up by white people who shot the middle finger to the City years ago, then traded their paid-for house in Phila and got their ticket out with a sub-prime mortgage. All of that bunch cried their eyes out, torpedoed their credit, pulled the bankruptcy lever and are stuck in the rental system or living in ma's basement.

Those houses are now open to receive the chaff of society that's been moving in to those townships the last 4 years. So instead of ex-white people from Philly moving in, now it's a multicultural smorgasbord of people coming up to take the investor rentals and they're bringing all their Jerry Springer drama with them.

I will laugh when it starts happening to Huntingdon Valley PA, which has the highest concentration of Philly slumloard property owners over all other townships close to Philadelphia.

THAT is way more effective at dealing with crime around you than more guns and more cops. It stops it before it even has a chance to start.

My solution to Philadelphia's violent crime problem? Export the problem to the rich suburbs who haven't had to pay to deal with this problem and were more than happy to contain it in Philadelphia County. It's called "spreading the love".

I see my plan is already taking hold in Delaware County. What used to be contained in Darby has jumped the shark all the way over to Glenolden and "the creep" is inching its way to the edge Prospect Park now. Oh yeah, the lovely oxycontin ring at the Boeing plant last summer--all of them pill poppers between Marcus Hook and Swarthmore. Lovely bunch of society and they're getting to be more representative of your average Delco resident by the day. Let the folks up in West Chester pay to police that.

I also saw the Youtube video of the Lower Merion kids getting high. Lovely bunch of children they are. It would be a shame to see Bala-Cynwyd turn into a scatological lollapalooza full of exported problems from Philly.

Something happened in 2007 and now suburban white kids want to be like Andy Reid's children. Looks like my plan is working.

You sure could prevent a lot of crime with all that knowledge of where it is and isn't dangerous, and what times to be in certain places.

Too bad you couldn't warn those kids in Lancaster at the Amish school that a mass gunman was going to strike that day.

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Kenzo's picture

Those were kindergartners. Are you suggesting that 6 year olds pack heat when they get on the buggy to go to a one room schoolhouse?

That was a tragic situation that really didn't have that much hope of being prevented. The Luby's cafeteria massacre in Killeen, TX would be a better cite, since it was a protracted hostage situation that killed many and nobody was armed in the restaurant. One or more concealed carry individuals could have had the chance to save lives. That massacre was the crime that first brought you statewide concealed carry permits in the first place.

I was raised with guns from an early age as most of my family, but not even my parents ever thought it wise to allow me to carry or transport as a minor. The only time I was ever permitted to do that unsupervised was to take unloaded rifles from family member A to family member B. If you hunt, law enforcement isn't surprised to see a long gun in your vehicle.

And yes, I had the stereotypical family membes with a loaded gun rack in the pickup, but they stopped doing that as soon as society started frowning on drinking longnecks while driving. Today it goes in a lockbox in the truckbed when you're going to the lease to shoot deer.

As soon as I turned 18, I was carrying a loaded firearm under my car seat, mostly because of carjackings (which isn't a problem in Philly but it is in sunbelt cities, and San Antonio had a nasty problem with them in the 80s and early 90s).

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

Jordan's picture

While I generally consider myself "Pro 2nd Amendment", look at what happened with the Tepper / Billy Panas thing. If Tepper wasn't armed, Panas would still be alive and the situation would have never escalated where it did.

Do I blame guns for that? Yeah, kind of. I also blame Tepper's lack of discretion, along with the PD's willingness to continue to allow Tepper to be armed. At the end of the day, that kid was shot because a guy like Tepper was permitted to carry a firearm.

That said, I think the majority of citizens have good enough judgment to carry a firearm.

A. Jordan Rushie
Fishtown Neighbors Association - Vice President
2424 East York Street, Suite 316
Philadelphia, PA 19125 215.385.LAW1 (5291)
Blog: www.phillylawblog.com
Website: www.fishtownlaw.com

th's picture

And that, dear Jordan, is what separates you from the "nuts".

You wanna dance? LET'S DANCE!

sdm's picture

Jordan wrote:
Do I blame guns for that? Yeah, kind of.

Going to chalk that ridiculous statement up to it still being a bit early in the morning. I know you're smarter than the type of person who would blame an inanimate object for the actions someone took with it.

From welfare to Mayfair.

bozoloper's picture

sdm wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Do I blame guns for that? Yeah, kind of.

Going to chalk that ridiculous statement up to it still being a bit early in the morning. I know you're smarter than the type of person who would blame an inanimate object for the actions someone took with it.

yes! we are now reaching my favorite part of any gun debate. guns/kill... spoons/fat...

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

sdm's picture

bozoloper wrote:
sdm wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Do I blame guns for that? Yeah, kind of.

Going to chalk that ridiculous statement up to it still being a bit early in the morning. I know you're smarter than the type of person who would blame an inanimate object for the actions someone took with it.

yes! we are now reaching my favorite part of any gun debate. guns/kill... spoons/fat...

I can't tell if you're mocking me or not, but don't expect me to give you any quarters at Barcade tonight.

From welfare to Mayfair.

bozoloper's picture

sdm wrote:
bozoloper wrote:
sdm wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Do I blame guns for that? Yeah, kind of.

Going to chalk that ridiculous statement up to it still being a bit early in the morning. I know you're smarter than the type of person who would blame an inanimate object for the actions someone took with it.

yes! we are now reaching my favorite part of any gun debate. guns/kill... spoons/fat...

I can't tell if you're mocking me or not, but don't expect me to give you any quarters at Barcade tonight.

no, i'm not mocking. have you ever heard the argument, "if guns kill people then spoons make people fat. therefore, we need spoon control."?

guns don't kill people. sometimes people kill people with guns. you can't blame the object, but you can recognize that the object can greatly facilitate the action. what would have been the outcome if tepper had come out the door with a baseball bat? the guy still might have been killed, but it's not nearly as likely. it takes a minute or two to beat someone to death. with that many people around it probably could have been stopped before it got to that point. it takes a split second to kill someone with a gun, no one has a chance to react or step in. in closing, no one has ever been drive by spooned.

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

austen's picture

bozoloper wrote:
drive by spooned.

This....would be awesome. And that will be my only comment on any of the GUNZ threads.

th's picture

bozoloper wrote:
sdm wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Do I blame guns for that? Yeah, kind of.

Going to chalk that ridiculous statement up to it still being a bit early in the morning. I know you're smarter than the type of person who would blame an inanimate object for the actions someone took with it.

yes! we are now reaching my favorite part of any gun debate. guns/kill... spoons/fat...

You can tell me that "guns don't kill people." But you can not tell me "Speeding bullets don't kill people."

You wanna dance? LET'S DANCE!

sdm's picture

th wrote:
bozoloper wrote:
sdm wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Do I blame guns for that? Yeah, kind of.

Going to chalk that ridiculous statement up to it still being a bit early in the morning. I know you're smarter than the type of person who would blame an inanimate object for the actions someone took with it.

yes! we are now reaching my favorite part of any gun debate. guns/kill... spoons/fat...

You can tell me that "guns don't kill people." But you can not tell me "Speeding bullets don't kill people."

.

From welfare to Mayfair.

sdm's picture

th wrote:
bozoloper wrote:
sdm wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Do I blame guns for that? Yeah, kind of.

Going to chalk that ridiculous statement up to it still being a bit early in the morning. I know you're smarter than the type of person who would blame an inanimate object for the actions someone took with it.

yes! we are now reaching my favorite part of any gun debate. guns/kill... spoons/fat...

You can tell me that "guns don't kill people." But you can not tell me "Speeding bullets don't kill people."

They can, but it's not a certainty. Also, if you want to get technical, the bullet itself does not kill you, tissue damage, sepsis, etc is what does you in.

From welfare to Mayfair.

th's picture

sdm wrote:
th wrote:
bozoloper wrote:
sdm wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Do I blame guns for that? Yeah, kind of.

Going to chalk that ridiculous statement up to it still being a bit early in the morning. I know you're smarter than the type of person who would blame an inanimate object for the actions someone took with it.

yes! we are now reaching my favorite part of any gun debate. guns/kill... spoons/fat...

You can tell me that "guns don't kill people." But you can not tell me "Speeding bullets don't kill people."

They can, but it's not a certainty. Also, if you want to get technical, the bullet itself does not kill you, tissue damage, sepsis, etc is what does you in.

If we want to get that technical, then people don't kill people either.

You wanna dance? LET'S DANCE!

bozoloper's picture

th wrote:
You can tell me that "guns don't kill people." But you can not tell me "Speeding bullets don't kill people."

actually, that's one of my other gun control musings. screw gun control, why not have bullet control? illegal guns are all over the place, it's pretty hard to clamp down on that at this point. since the life expectancy of a gun is pretty long even if you stopped selling them now there'd still be hundreds of thousands out there for years to come. bullets will eventually run out. what if only a licensed gun owner could purchase a bullet? heck, couldn't you even serial code the bullets so when casings are found at a scene you can trace the purchaser?

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

th's picture

I don't know. Maybe GPI could enlighten us regarding our constitutional rights regarding bullets.

You wanna dance? LET'S DANCE!

Jordan's picture

Here's the thing, in my opinion.

Sometimes when stuff goes down, emotions run high. Decisions are made quickly, more on instinct than logic. Tepper was armed, a situation was escalated, his emotions ran high, and he chose to open fire. I don't think that would have happened if he had something a little bit less lethal on him.

Yes, guns don't kill people. People kill people. But guns sure make the means a lot easier. While spoons don't make people fat, having a McDonald's on every corner sure makes getting fat a lot more convenient...

Now, that being said, should a situation like this trump one's constitutional rights? I don't think so. I also think the majority of people who carry, legally, won't resort to gun violence unless their life is truly in jeopardy. It's those who carry illegally that create a problem. Philadelphia does a pretty good job screening applicants for a carry permit.

A. Jordan Rushie
Fishtown Neighbors Association - Vice President
2424 East York Street, Suite 316
Philadelphia, PA 19125 215.385.LAW1 (5291)
Blog: www.phillylawblog.com
Website: www.fishtownlaw.com

bozoloper's picture

Jordan wrote:
Yes, guns don't kill people. People kill people. But guns sure make the means a lot easier. While spoons don't make people fat, having a McDonald's on every corner sure makes getting fat a lot more convenient...

are we advocating fast food control laws? because this something i can get behind.

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

sdm's picture

bozoloper wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Yes, guns don't kill people. People kill people. But guns sure make the means a lot easier. While spoons don't make people fat, having a McDonald's on every corner sure makes getting fat a lot more convenient...

are we advocating fast food control laws? because this something i can get behind.

Then go move to NYC where the nanny state knows what's best for your diet. Just because some people can't practice self control doesn't mean it should become harder for me to get a Suasage McMuffin when the mood strikes.

From welfare to Mayfair.

bozoloper's picture

sdm wrote:
bozoloper wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Yes, guns don't kill people. People kill people. But guns sure make the means a lot easier. While spoons don't make people fat, having a McDonald's on every corner sure makes getting fat a lot more convenient...

are we advocating fast food control laws? because this something i can get behind.

Then go move to NYC where the nanny state knows what's best for your diet. Just because some people can't practice self control doesn't mean it should become harder for me to get a Suasage McMuffin when the mood strikes.

i'm not disputing that. all i'm saying is do we really need 4 dunkin' donuts in a half mile radius at 15th st/suburban station?

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

sdm's picture

bozoloper wrote:
sdm wrote:
bozoloper wrote:
Jordan wrote:
Yes, guns don't kill people. People kill people. But guns sure make the means a lot easier. While spoons don't make people fat, having a McDonald's on every corner sure makes getting fat a lot more convenient...

are we advocating fast food control laws? because this something i can get behind.

Then go move to NYC where the nanny state knows what's best for your diet. Just because some people can't practice self control doesn't mean it should become harder for me to get a Suasage McMuffin when the mood strikes.

i'm not disputing that. all i'm saying is do we really need 4 dunkin' donuts in a half mile radius at 15th st/suburban station?

No, but we even worse would be some sort of legislation to regulate that.

From welfare to Mayfair.

bozoloper's picture

sdm wrote:
No, but we even worse would be some sort of legislation to regulate that.

nor will there be, but what's the downside to it?

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

austen's picture

sdm wrote:
No, but we even worse would be some sort of legislation to regulate that.

I think that many places do have or are thinking about this type of regulation - it is affecting food trucks in a lot of urban areas.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/02/food_truck_war_how_city_governments_are_trying_to_kill_them_with_dumb_regulations_.html

sdm's picture

"We want Americans to be healthy so we're only allowing one [fast food restaurant] per [arbitrary measurement of area]"

Now replace [fast food restaurant] with the word bar, because that's the next logical step.

From welfare to Mayfair.

bozoloper's picture

sdm wrote:
"We want Americans to be healthy so we're only allowing one [fast food restaurant] per [arbitrary measurement of area]"

Now replace [fast food restaurant] with the word bar, because that's the next logical step.

and bars are regulated by area. there is a finite number of liquor licenses.

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

sdm's picture

bozoloper wrote:
sdm wrote:
"We want Americans to be healthy so we're only allowing one [fast food restaurant] per [arbitrary measurement of area]"

Now replace [fast food restaurant] with the word bar, because that's the next logical step.

and bars are regulated by area. there is a finite number of liquor licenses.

Those exist to make money, not to regulate how many bars can exist in a given square mile.

From welfare to Mayfair.

sdm's picture

I'm going to Federal Donuts now to eat lots of fried food and then go and drink beer, smoke cigarettes, and buy ammo.

From welfare to Mayfair.

bozoloper's picture

sdm wrote:
bozoloper wrote:
sdm wrote:
"We want Americans to be healthy so we're only allowing one [fast food restaurant] per [arbitrary measurement of area]"

Now replace [fast food restaurant] with the word bar, because that's the next logical step.

and bars are regulated by area. there is a finite number of liquor licenses.

Those exist to make money, not to regulate how many bars can exist in a given square mile.

they do both. if there are no more licenses for a township another bar can't move in.

i'm going to eat some gross looking purple cabbage.

nothin' bring you down like your hometown.

austen's picture

sdm wrote:
I'm going to Federal Donuts now to eat lots of fried food and then go and drink beer, smoke cigarettes, and buy ammo.

Now I have the "America....Freak Yeah!" song from Team America:World Police in my head.

sdm's picture

austen wrote:
sdm wrote:
I'm going to Federal Donuts now to eat lots of fried food and then go and drink beer, smoke cigarettes, and buy ammo.

Now I have the "America....Freak Yeah!" song from Team America:World Police in my head.

This:

From welfare to Mayfair.

th's picture

sdm wrote:
I'm going to Federal Donuts now to eat lots of fried food and then go and drink beer, smoke cigarettes, and buy ammo.

I've checked my in-box twice now and have not seen an invitation. Way NOT COOL.

You wanna dance? LET'S DANCE!

GPI's picture

th wrote:
sdm wrote:
I'm going to Federal Donuts now to eat lots of fried food and then go and drink beer, smoke cigarettes, and buy ammo.

I've checked my in-box twice now and have not seen an invitation. Way NOT COOL.

You are invited to the meet and eat, hosted by Viper. Check the events calendar for more info. Next Saturday March 10th. Hope to see you there.

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Leo's picture

Technically, it's legal to carry a longgun on your shoulder around town too. Maybe I'll OC my boom stick like Ash of Evil Dead/Army of Darkness fame:

"…alright, you primitive screwheads."

Mulvihill & Rushie LLC
The Fishtown Lawyers
Criminal Defense • Civil Trials
www.FishtownLaw.com
215.385.5291

GPI's picture

Leo wrote:
Technically, it's legal to carry a longgun on your shoulder around town too. Maybe I'll OC my boom stick like Ash of Evil Dead/Army of Darkness fame:

"…alright, you primitive screwheads."

There was a guy at the rally for Viper who OC'ed an AR15 over his shoulder. You shouldn't have to hide your gun if you're not a criminal.

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

dan

"I like my way of doing it better than your way of not doing it." - D.L. Moody