Norris St Deli

Its the TownWatch.

2 B/E's were reported on the 2200 block of Almond and a TV (Theft from Vehicle) was also reported on 2600 block of Norris within the past 7 days.

I was wondering about this "hotspot" when I saw it on CrimeReports. Bodega with shadys standing outside all the time makes me wonder...

hmmmm,
"bodega" would imply they served something other than Irish pizza, hoagies, etc.
that's a legit "corner store," I buy essentials in there all the time and they do re-stock things when they run out.
It ain't a front, if that is what you are implying.
and there are always people hanging around outside, it is a local hang out spot.
sometimes it is older neighborhood ladies, sometimes it is younger guys, sometimes middle aged men.
while a few neighbors have recently mentioned issues with cars, at least one case featured a non-locked door.
Ironically, I have been worried about an increase in crime lately, but that is because the block seems less safe since the Governor pulled the famous "operation fishtown script refill" bust when he was still AG.
This means that the people who used to do the real business are no longer around and thus we no longer have eyes on the street 24/7.
I cannot recall much petty crime going on when they were up and running.
those guys worked a lot of hours and thus they were always watching the block.
I think we have a nice and safe block.
and I am glad the store is there when I run out of chicken stock, or eggs, milk, etc.

Wow. Unbelievable to me that someone would lament the disappearance of their local drug dealers because they keep the block "safer."

I'm just going to shake my head and walk away now.

I don't usually agree with Lauraska but I have to this time. Am I to believe that the drug dealers were keeping an eye on the street to prevent crimes?

My jaw dropped and I can't pick it back up!

Believe it. It's my understanding that when there's a controlled territory, there are different rules. Without a centralized suppy and a "family" who "owns" the territory, there are more freelance dealers, which often creates more "petty" crimes.

Wacky, no?

I would agree, although I'm not 100% sure this was a lament.
It might just be descriptive.

To prevent crime other than their own? Actually, it's quite possible.
* They don't want to attract law enforcement attention that would interfere with their illegal activities.
* Although they may not care how their crimes contribute to lower quality of life for people on other blocks, they still want *their* block to be devoid of things like break-ins, etc.

well gee,

I put "ironically" right in there, thus denoting that what I was seeing/feeling was "ironic."

"Something is ironic if the result is the opposite of what was intended; an ironic event is an incongruous event, one at odds with what might have been expected."

Perhaps in addition to some reading issues, it is difficult for you to comprehend the fact that a local operation, staffed by locals, would indeed keep an eye on things so that nothing interfered with business, ed off the neighbors, created a reason for cops to be called, etc.

Perhaps you might realize that not all drug dealers operate like what you saw on "The Wire" and that every operation doesn't run like it is under the Somerset El Stop?

Perhaps you might realize that a bust which takes out the professionals and brings in the amateurs could lead to an decrease in stability, safety, etc?

Maybe you might realize that since you haven't lived and observed this block for @ five years you really are in no position to comment on whether or not there is a net positive or negative to the area?

Or maybe not.

That's one of the biggest issues with a prohibitionist drug policy, it often leads -- "ironically" -- to worse outcomes.

Well one thing that is standing out is how much theft activity is being reported (B/E, V, TV) that's right there at that one hotspot at Almond & Norris within a 1 block radius.

and again,
I re-state,
this is a nice block and a nice area.
It is much nicer/safer than my old place over by Konrad Square.
We got good neighbors, good people, the store is an asset, etc.
I woudl not deny that there are serious issues with opiates in this area.
But, I do not believe that the current model of enforcement--based as it is on prohibition--is going to do anything but make things worse.

DECEMBER THEFTS AND B/E NEAR ALMOND AND NORRIS, DEC 2011

The two B/E's are over on the left where it says "B". There's another theft from vehicle (TV), and a bunch of TV's elsewhere close to this intersection.

All just this month.

which probably means there is one junky in area or one bad teenager/group of teens.

As usual, nobody knows anything about anything except for Steveeboy.

I think that what Dan said is most accurate. While I don't doubt that these idiots selling pills were "keeping an eye" on things, they weren't doing it to make the block safer and they didn't care that they were probably attracting a crowd that was committing petty crimes on the blocks AROUND their block. (And perhaps Steveeboy doesn't care about that, either...as long as HIS block is all good.) What I suspect is that the same crap that was probably happening just a block away is now happening on this block because there just isn't the all-day physical presence of eyes on the street. Nonetheless, I'm not going to be sad that those guys got arrested and are now spending their days in lockup.

I don't believe in a prohibitionist drug policy. In fact, I believe that most illegal drugs should be legalized. HOWEVER, under our current legal system (see, I'm crazy...I believe in dealing with what exists right now...something about reality really turns me on), the drug trade is predatory. Dealers are not good people who are just helping out the folks who are addicted. They victimize the addicted, torture the good people who live around them with violence and other quality of life issues, and generally could care less about anyone but themselves. Sorry, but I don't want those people living anywhere near me. No matter what.

I live up the street and a few guys stop there throughout the day but no one hangs there with much frequency . Ill bet my last dollar any pretty crime in the surrounding area comes from 2 or 3 guys . Detectives were just at one of the scumbags house friday afternoon . It has nothing to do with anyone who stands outside the STORE .

Purely anecdotal from my end, but "The Wire" is exactly how a former resident who used to live near that corner described the activity there when I asked him about it!

Screw it. Put cameras up. Let them deal inside and keep it quiet, and the junkies can smile for the cameras when they try to push in your window units trying to get in your house so they can get that TV turned over quick under the EL before the withdrawal symptoms kick in.

No Laura, just telling you what I have seen with my own two eyes.

I agree with what kwhln215 says.

people are at the store because that is where people meet and greet, catch up, hang out.

the store is legit.

I agree, the store is legit, my husband and I go in everyday to buy artics, cigarettes and whatever else we happen to run out of... I have seen a couple of older ladies sitting in chairs on the corner but have also seen a couple of teens standing there, but they say hello and hold the door open as we go in, we've never had a problem with them.

maybe those older ladies are real kingpins!

Uh...the dealer on my block is a grandma. Just sayin'.

So is she in her late 20s or early 30s?

they're the worst. total thugs. violent. the loud music. the guns. terrible.

No...she's just in business with her son who brings all those people around...constantly.

Agree with steveboy. I live right by there and go in all the time. The guys who hang there live with-in a block or two of the store and are friends with the guy who runs / owns the place. I walk in and by all the time and they never give me any trouble. I don't know if the're is any shady biz going on, but i'm there a few times a week and don't have any reason to believe there is.

Well hopefully the little thieves that have been hitting up this small area of Fishtown will get their rear-ends handed back to them. 2 B/Es on the same block in 1 month, in the winter, is kinda unusual I think. No?

if you look at the pictures that were in the newspaper of the people arrested, you'll recognize them as current regulars to that store. doubtfully a coincidence.

Is this it? (ADOBE PDF Viewer Required)

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/loftus%20investigation.pdf

no, there was a spread in the newspaper, i think the spirit. it had pictures of numerous people arrested, male and female.

look at the address's in this article:

http://gantdaily.com/2010/10/23/corbett-announces-20-arrests-in-operation-fishtown-refill-linked-to-large-scale-prescription-drug-ring/

that's the article i was talking about, it had pictures when it was printed. like i said i was told this by my neighbor. i wonder if any of the females listed are one of the owners my neighbor was talking about. i recognize one of the names and can 100% say i know he hangs there regularly.

Here is the one with all the pictures

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/printPage.aspx?ID=5759

yup, one of the women works there, don't know if she's one of the owners, but she definitely works there.

Isn't this place called Elmo's? How is the pizza?

No jordan, you are thinking of the one at norris and memphis. Their pizza was terrible, now they are shut down.

If location(PIZZASHOP) == Fishtown then taste(PIZZASHOP.pizza) = TERRIBLE

hopefully pizzabrain can break the cycle.

False.

sorry man, there isn't a pizza worth eating in the neighborhood. you need to cross into nolibs for trios or rustica to get something decent.

or get one of the many residents who can make a better pizza to give/sell you one, i guess. but that wouldnt count as a pizza shop.

Franko's - caramelized onions and ricotta cheese. That is all.

Franco's is infinitely better than any NoLibs pizza

Thirded. Their garlic knots alone make me shiver with glee.

i think franco's is not only the best pizza in the area, but the best pizza i've had in philadelphia. most other philly pizzerias only offer conveyor-belt, thick-crusted, jarred-sauce pizza that is awful.

Trois is passable and if you're super into things tasting like grease, Rustica is perfect for that.

Rustica is crap. Overpriced and underwhelming.

The Old Smokey (Smoky?) @ Rustica is really the only one that's ever impressed me there -- I think it's their sauce that I don't like. I admire Rustica's ambition but I agree that Francos beats both Rustica's and Trio's.

I got a plain slice at Franco's one day and was pretty unimpressed. Rustica is ok as is Trios but none of them are anything to write home about, they are just decent pizza.

you can't judge a pizzeria by its slices. they usually sit there for a while. you have to get a fresh pizza.

Franco's isn't in fishtown

and

It was totally unimpressive

i agree that rustica's pizza can be bad/heavy/greasy but the sicilian is legitimately great. or at least it was last time i got it. i normally just make my own pizza these days.

santuccis and taconellis are both good in the general area, but im not ordering my pizza in the morning and santuccis isn't as good by the time you get all the way home as it would be fresh.

wah wah. even if you thought franco's was great, i'm sure you wouldn't say so on this board anyway, since it's in your nature to disagree with everyone just for the sake of disagreeing. franco's is the closest to real pizza (and when i say "real" pizza, i mean new york-style) you can get in this city.

I have found Santucci's delivery from Port Richmond to be reasonably timed. Far better than waiting for Ekta.

of course people from neighborhood go to the store, they live there and it is the closest one...
and it has stuff people need because it is a legit store. if it was a front it would feature the empty shelves, outdated food, etc. And I wouldn't have been able to go there last night and buy a pint of breyer's at 9:30pm. just because a store happens to have people hanging around it doesn't make it a drug front. and just because there are a couple of crimes in 2 weeks doesn't mean the block is full of "shady people at the bodega." OTOH, I would never eat pizza there.

I wish I had thought to buy a pint of Breyers. Dang, now I want ice cream for breakfast.

Ekta is a total crap shoot. they _always_ say its going to be 1-1.5h but half the time we get our food in a half hour.

If I thought Franco's was great I would have just stuck with the point about it not being in fishtown. I don't making lying a habit. Hyperbole sometimes, but not outright lying. Franco's may be the best in the area but that aint saying much in a neighborhood where tommy's and the pizza shop exist.

this. imo, Franco's is the only good pizza west of the Garden State Parkway. i really think he has his water imported from NJ or NY. I actually know of places in MN and CA that import their dough water.

See - I love making my own too, and I have a pizza stone, but the issue I run into is that the crust (the way I make it's almost like foccacia - very similar recipe) doesn't quite cook in the middle.

So the cast iron alleviates this sogginess, right? I'm looking to make some soon since I have some linguicia (Portugese sausage) right from Southern Massachusetts - so so so good on pizza.

I've tried this method and it does make pretty good pizza (as does a pizza stone) but since I am lazy I generally use a regular pan. I dont have to get corn meal everywhere from using a peel and I can make two pizzas at once.

also, you should start making your own dough. its really easy. the key is to use make it a bit dry (~tacky, not sticky) and then let it rise overnight and all day before using it. if you get the moisture content right it will be easy to work and you wont even need extra flour (which makes a mess) to keep it from sticking.

are you letting your pizza stone heat up long enough before putting your pizza on?

With some practice, yes. Your first batch might be a bit soggy, but leaving the dough on the hot cast iron on the stove gets it nice and cooked in the middle.

I also had a pizza pan, but it never did the job right - the hot cast iron method does.

Because I am lazy, I'd rather buy the $0.99 Trader Joe's dough :D

touche, it just seems like less work to me because I split it over 2 days (and because my mixer does all the hard work)

you are SO right. When I lived in Brooklyn, I was out for a walk and wandered into a bodega that was CLEARLY a front to get water. I walked in - there were 3 cans of beans, some dusty gum and a bottle of water. All conversation stopped and they were like "and you are...where are you from" I backed out slowly.

Yeah, I am - maybe because my dough is well, thick and doughy. Sometimes I get crazyee and make it with whole wheat and throw in some herbs too.

And totally agree on the stand mixers - they are lifesavers, as I was telling someone just the other day.

Is it not possible that a corner store could function legitimately as a store AND be conducting/hosting/facilitating illegal business transactions in some way? I'm not saying this store definitely is or isn't -- I just think the mere fact that they keep their bread stocked well is a pretty lame argument against the possibility.

Hmmm... color me at least a little skeptical that the cast iron is going to fix your problem. You can get it somewhat hotter on the stovetop than you can get the stone in the oven. But I think the bigger problem is just slow heat transfer to the middle of the dough because its thick. What may happen with the cast iron is that you just burn the bottom before the inside gets a chance to properly cook.

You may have to consider cooking for a longer amount of time at a lower temperature. I know that has its own perils but...

Tacconellis is by far the best in the area . White or Plain pizza you cant go wrong . For Fishtown Key pizza upside down pizza is fabulous

I dunno. I think Tacconellis got full of themselves. Back when the Napoleon Cafe was open, and they decided they were going 'boutique'. Before that, we use to go in there and get five or six pies on a Saturday night, and they were happy to have us. Now, that order ahead nonsense just makes me resent them, whether they're good or not. They used to have a little red truck with an oven on the back that delivered...they should bring that back.

I go to bed in a NyQuil induced coma, come back and there's a pizza war going on in a safety thread.

I'm with you on the Upside Down - their White Pie with Tomato is amazing too. You need breath mints for a week after one of those though!

I'm still a big fan of Trio's pizza...not so much Rustica and for my next broker's open house I guess I'll have to get Franco's pizza to try it out. Even after living in NYC though, I still prefer a thicker crust than that so based off what I'm reading here, maybe Trio's will still reign supreme.

How can you even talk about pizza at a time like this?
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2011/12/famed_delorenzos_hudson_street.html

but Delorenzo's is opeing a store in PA! i wonder where?

Based on your recommendation, I just ordered Key's Upside down pizza on Friday. Awesome. Key rules.

Is this "upside down" pizza something like Santucci's (sauce on top)?

Look unless people know for a FACT that this store is a front for illegal activity, I think all of you should really start worrying about other things and keep your mouth shut !!! I know the owner and everyone one who works for him and yes the one girl was arrested, thats not a secret, but don't condem everyone else for her bad choices.

You seriously need to calm the heck down. If you'd actually READ the thread, you would see that I wasn't even referring to the deli when I was talking about the drug dealing grandmother. And one more time, because you REALLY don't seem to get it yet, NO ONE HAS SAID THAT THE OWNERS OF THE DELI ARE DRUG DEALERS. Not one single person. Jeez. Learn how to READ before you start telling people what to do. Seriously.

I just read this and I have to reply. Though it may seem as if the timing of the removal of the corner dealers coincinded with from the Governer's drug raid. I can say with certaintly that we have Officer Anna Mae Law to thank for this. As we opened a Play street on 800 Almond. Officer Law and Other police constantly made their presence known until the dealers left and didn't come back. And remains Drug dealer free to this day

Lauraska....NO SWEETHEART YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN ! I HAVE SERIOUSLY HAD ENOUGH HEARING ABOUT NORRIS STREET DELI !!!

TRUST IM NOT THE ONE TO OFF !

I'll say it one more time since you clearly need the repetition...I wasn't talking about Norris Street Deli. Maybe you need all caps? I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE NORRIS STREET DELI. And you might want to take it easy with the threats, considering that the 26th is now on here. Just a suggestion.

Yes, but better. And I'm surprised to be saying that, since Santucci's is really good.

I'll say it one more time since you clearly need the repetition...I wasn't talking about Norris Street Deli. Maybe you need all caps? I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE NORRIS STREET DELI. And you might want to take it easy with the threats, considering that the 26th is now on here. Just a suggestion.