Fishtown Pro-Development Alliance

Forums:

So, uh, who are you?

From your facebook page:

Zoning and planning meetings tend to be attended overwhelmingly by those who are already opposed to a project, preventing any reasonable chance of success. This group is a call to balance the scales a bit, but not to be a rubber stamp.

Description

This group has a simple, but vital, purpose. Our goal is to help make Fishtown a friendlier neighborhood for development. Our method is very simple: To help counteract the negativity that is ever present in our planning and zoning meetings by increasing the attendance of unbiased and unemotional stakeholders who have a desire to see our neighborhood reach its fullest potential.

th's picture

Quote:
... unemotional stakeholders who have a desire ...

like.

You wanna dance? LET'S DANCE!

puzzles's picture

I like this. Would change the name to Fishtown Growth Alliance though.

stbenjamin's picture

Sounds like something that would be very positive to see at more zoning meetings.

Kenzo's picture

puzzles wrote:
I like this. Would change the name to Fishtown Growth Alliance though.

Sounds cancerous.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

Kenzo's picture

*poof*

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

Kenzo's picture

*somebody who works for US Construction*

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

lighterthief's picture

perhaps "Fishtown Smart Growth Alliance"

Any group that seems pro-developer over pro neighborhood will not be well received,.

Not all development proposals are good. At it;s best the community input process pushes developers to address neighborhood concerns and do better development. At it's worst it's a circus.

The main problem I feel in EK (I have been to a few FNA meetings but not many) is that some neighbors with legitimate gripes about certain projects now hate everything proposed. Trying to get people to think about the difference between a solid reasonable development proposal and an irresponsible greedy one is hard.

Empty factories to the east and all our waste
The shape of things that came shows on the broken workers face

Kenzo's picture

Without SOSNA, Kenny Gamble and his politically connected real estate development firm, Universal Companies, would have filled up Graduate Hospital with crapshacks. Sorry, but the RCO Zoning Process is a Good Thing(tm).

It's about the ONLY thing out there that gives actual people who live on the street some power over their own communities, although it's severely limited power. The *real* power comes when you launch litigation against the ZBA and the developer in Common Pleas and challenge the ZBA applicant to demonstrate why there's a hardship where the current zoning cannot be utilized. For a financed project, the delay in a CP case alone can cause the financing for the project to go away, thus killing the project.

See: Grasso venue.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

stein's picture

I don't really see the point unless they are trying to get some developer money to run as an astroturf group.

but if you are interested in voting for developments that you think would be good for the neighborhood why not just join the email list or facebook page or whatever for the zoning meeting information of your local NA? then just show up for the meetings to vote in favor of those developments.

Sounds like the only way this could be effective is if you had one leader who could mobilize a bunch of drone voters to show up at meetings and vote in favor regardless of whether or not they personally supported it. That kind of system works in congress because you can motivate caucus members to vote along the party line for one issue by promising to align the party with other issues the member cares about. But how would it work here?

Ken Milano (before he went and edited this comment out to avoid the consequences of having wrote it) wrote:
I don’t have much sympathy for renters, for me, they are non citizens

TLP's picture

lighterthief wrote:
Not all development proposals are good. At it;s best the community input process pushes developers to address neighborhood concerns and do better development. At it's worst it's a circus.

Anybody who was at the last three big FNA zoning meetings over the last three weeks (Loco Pez, 1339 Berks, Ice House) saw the full range of potential reactions: from reasonable neighbor concerns to shouting, from reasonable owners looking to make a project work to the type who just doesn't care.

As for the pro-development alliance folks... don't they have an account on here? I've seen them post a few times. Let's wait until they show up.

Coder's picture

Sooo...its a developer? Its just a construction company who wants its stuff passed? Is it anyone who actually lives in Fishtown? Is it all of the above.
Who are/is these people?

"No no! You don't ask me questions! You are a rabbit! I am a human!"

Kenzo's picture

stein wrote:
Sounds like the only way this could be effective is if you had one leader who could mobilize a bunch of drone voters to show up at meetings and vote in favor regardless of whether or not they personally supported it.

You just described how zoning works in Norris Square.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

Pure_Fishtown's picture

I think they have been out in full force at zoning meetings already. I still can't get over the Ice House Condos with the majority of votes being the Green (within 500 ft) when the majority of faces were not of the neighbors within that area.

What was the name of the female architect for Ice House?

FREE Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

TLP's picture

Pure_Fishtown wrote:
I think they have been out in full force at zoning meetings already. I still can't get over the Ice House Condos with the majority of votes being the Green (within 500 ft) when the majority of faces were not of the neighbors within that area.

What was the name of the female architect for Ice House?

If they received a green ballot, then they lived within 500 feet. The architect's name was Judy, I think.

JedicusMaximus's picture

Pure_Fishtown wrote:
I think they have been out in full force at zoning meetings already. I still can't get over the Ice House Condos with the majority of votes being the Green (within 500 ft) when the majority of faces were not of the neighbors within that area.

Most of the people sitting near me at the meeting, in the rear of the room, were current residents of the Ice House. From what I heard of their conversations, most, if not all, of the people that live in the first phase attended the meeting to vote in favor of the proposal. I suspect this is why the proposal passed with the people that lived within 500 feet.

10011101

FPDA's picture

You guys crack me up. Kenzo, your investigative powers are strong, but Zoe is just someone who liked the page. I knew she worked in construction, but that's as far as that connection went. I will have a conversation with her about FB privacy settings, though. And we haven't been out in force as we only have a couple of people who've liked the page. I can't even get my wife to show for the meetings.

Pretty much the whole point is to get more people involved in the meetings. There's a self-selection bias involved in attendance where only the people predisposed to saying "no" show up as anger is a great motivator. I don't want this to be a rubber stamp (I've voted no at FNA meetings) but I do want people to attend who will come in with a more positive attitude to better reflect the overall feeling of the neighborhood.

And I think the Ice House was a good example of that. There has to be, what, over 150 people living within 500 feet of the development and around 30 showed up. I'm not sure we really captured the whole neighborhood's feeling for the project.

As for it being astroturf, A) it'd be pretty crappy astroturf, 2) I'm more than willing to take money from whomever is stupid enough to think that it'd change my vote and spend it on beer for anyone attending the meeting, and III) I like the name change suggestion, but I'm pretty lazy and probably won't get to it any time soon.

FPDA's picture

Also, you have to admit that my little fish-construction graphic is pretty awesome. C'mon...

fuzzybottoms's picture

FPDA wrote:
Pretty much the whole point is to get more people involved in the meetings. There's a self-selection bias involved in attendance where only the people predisposed to saying "no" show up as anger is a great motivator. I don't want this to be a rubber stamp (I've voted no at FNA meetings) but I do want people to attend who will come in with a more positive attitude to better reflect the overall feeling of the neighborhood.

As someone who has attended almost every FNA zoning meeting for well over a year now, I have to disagree with this statement. There are plenty of instances where individuals have come out in overwhelming support of projects. In fact, I'd say that there are more examples of these than people coming out NOT in support of a project. The negative meetings often get more attention, though, so it may appear that's the case, but I don't believe it is.

Kenzo's picture

I don't know how many zoning meetings you've actually been to in other neighborhoods, FPDA, but from direct first-hand observation, Fishtown was already pro-development before.

And projects like the Grasso venue which makes FNA appear to outsiders as NIMBY-anti-development, only partially involved FNA. ORCA was the other half on that particular proposal since the project was situated mostly on land within ORCA's boundaries; so what good is it really to pack zoning meetings in a neighborhood association that's been approving projects for years? We opposed the Grasso venue for practical reasons, not for NIMBY reasons... it was clear at face value that his proposal was not viable until I-95 construction is complete, but he proposed to build and have it open right in the middle of when the freeway and the service roads will all be torn up.

I took a neutral position on the Grasso venue but I called out David Grasso for being STUPID... not realizing that the main thoroughfare to his project would be disappearing and re-appearing over the course of the next 5 years because Richmond Street is going to be realigned, along with 95, and thru-traffic onto his parcel for large concerts will cause chaos and confusion, and probably put a bad taste in customer's mouths. To top it all off, before it dawned on him that nobody would be able to drive to his concert venue, he made campaign contribs to Frank DiCicco and rubbed his magic thighs to get spot zoning, which DiCicco did. That basically put Grasso as persona-non-grata to everyone in the neighborhood when you resort to Gotti-style tactics to get what you want.

I think where you are more needed is Point Breeze, were the anti-development bias has a very, VERY strong tinge of racism. And it has gotten ugly. I don't know if you've been reading about the Point Breeze zoning stuff on PhillySpeaks, but that's where the real development fights are.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

Coder's picture

FPDA-have you ever previously disclosed your organization and/or what it represents?
I've seen you post for a little bit now, but I don't remember anyone ever discussing what the initials stood for. I kinda feel like maybe you should have.

"No no! You don't ask me questions! You are a rabbit! I am a human!"

FPDA's picture

fuzzybottoms: Then I'm wasting my time, albeit a very small amount of it. When I see people coming in who are "Pro", it seems like they're different people every time. I want them to come more often.

Kenzo: See above. I like new development. I don't like bad new development. There's a difference between the two. I just don't want a good project stopped because on some random Tuesday a few people happen to not show up. When you're talking about votes of around 30 people, that could be an issue.

Coder: It isn't much of an organization. It's a FB page. And my posts have a link at the bottom to that page. And my picture is of a fish with a construction crane. Didn't really think it was required. Sorry for the confusion, I guess I should have done some sort of announcement post introducing myself. Consider this my "Hello!"

Kenzo's picture

One of the best civic associations in all of Philadelphia, with the fairest zoning board has got to be SOSNA, and nobody can accuse SOSNA of being anti developer, OR anti-low income (SOSNA has a lot of PHA in its boundaries). SOSNA's board walks a very fine razor thin edge, and no developer that has accused SOSNA of being biased for the last 10 years has been able to make their accusations stick.

FNA Zoning is a bit less organized than SOSNA's zoning board, but it is quite similar to SOSNA's flagship-zoning process.

I'm want ORCA going in that direction that SOSNA went, so developers and applicants who come before ORCA are forced to disclose identities of applicants so their past history with property in the City can be evaluated, have the applicant present the merits of the project and its benefit to the applicant and what impact the applicant expects it will have on the community, and a subjective presentation where those in attendance cannot castigate the Civic Association for any bias, and contentious meetings filled with speechifying are quashed with double-meetings to separate the zoning presentation from the actual voting.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

Coder's picture

Cool. I was just wondering why this is the first I'm hearing of your org. (I tend not to read the bottom liner notes, and can't access FB when I'm at work, and never remember to when I can.)

"No no! You don't ask me questions! You are a rabbit! I am a human!"

FPDA's picture

Coder wrote:
Cool. I was just wondering why this is the first I'm hearing of your org. (I tend not to read the bottom liner notes, and can't access FB when I'm at work, and never remember to when I can.)

Actually, I work in the non-profit area, so I do want to reiterate that it is not an "organization" or an "association" in any legal sense. I want to make that as clear as possible in case any authorities are tuning into this public thread. Not a real organization. Just some dude with a laptop and a Facebook account. And a winning smile.

Coder's picture

Well, whatever you are...
Just trying to get a feel for where you're coming from.

"No no! You don't ask me questions! You are a rabbit! I am a human!"

roma258's picture

fuzzybottoms wrote:
As someone who has attended almost every FNA zoning meeting for well over a year now, I have to disagree with this statement. There are plenty of instances where individuals have come out in overwhelming support of projects. In fact, I'd say that there are more examples of these than people coming out NOT in support of a project. The negative meetings often get more attention, though, so it may appear that's the case, but I don't believe it is.

This. I don't particularly mind anyone organizing a pro-development facebook page, but FNA zoning meetings are already pretty pro-development (with a few notable exceptions). Sure, there will be some loud anti-development voices heard during some meetings, but the actual votes very often are overwhelming pro. The zoning process in Philly gets a bad rep, sometimes justifiably so, but FNA does it right for the most part. ZBA and the council on the other hand...

Kenzo's picture

So, the theory goes... "nobody goes to zoning meetings when they're for zoning, so the room is filled with curmudgeon bats frothing at the mouth, afraid of change... so we want to put in a cheerleading squad into the room to give them the googly-eyes and most-likely, vote for the project. Unless of course it's a medical waste incinerator or a pawn shop, or something like that."

Yes?

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

Coder's picture

I don't know what it is, but it just doesn't seem square. Like there's some ulterior motive that's not coming to the fore front. Maybe its just my natural paranoia.

"No no! You don't ask me questions! You are a rabbit! I am a human!"

FPDA's picture

Kenzo wrote:
So, the theory goes... "nobody goes to zoning meetings when they're for zoning, so the room is filled with curmudgeon bats frothing at the mouth, afraid of change... so we want to put in a cheerleading squad into the room to give them the googly-eyes and most-likely, vote for the project. Unless of course it's a medical waste incinerator or a pawn shop, or something like that."

Yes?

Depends on whether the pawn shop has a TLC reality show attached.

lighterthief's picture

Kenzo wrote:
So, the theory goes... "nobody goes to zoning meetings when they're for zoning, so the room is filled with curmudgeon bats frothing at the mouth, afraid of change... so we want to put in a cheerleading squad into the room to give them the googly-eyes and most-likely, vote for the project. Unless of course it's a medical waste incinerator or a pawn shop, or something like that."

Yes?

Kenzo is that a quote from the FB page?
If so the attitude on display is exactly the sort of obnoxiousness that fuels discord in the hood,

Maybe trying to understand exactly why some people are afraid of change is a start. In many cases the seemingly irrational anti-development stance comes from real concerns that are just mis-applied or expressed. The idea of steamrollering your neighbors does not sit cool with me. Just sounds like more clowns in the circus

Empty factories to the east and all our waste
The shape of things that came shows on the broken workers face

karp's picture

FNA Zoning Records from 2006-2012 (note the years 2006-2008 are not completely digital but will be soon so there are some missing meetings)

Project Community Meetings
Support = 109 or 74%
Opposition = 36 or 25%
Even Vote = 2 or 1%
Informational = 7

Total Votes Cast
Support = 2388 or 66%
Opposition = 1248 or 34%

Again, we are still scanning and recording some of the paper records between 2006-08 so I cannot say that this is a 100% sample of all of our meetings. These percentages do appear accurate with our typical years worth of votes.

This data should show that while fishtown does vote on a project to project basis and the people who vote will change with the location, the votes are heavily on the support side for variances and ordinances.

FPDA's picture

Coder wrote:
I don't know what it is, but it just doesn't seem square. Like there's some ulterior motive that's not coming to the fore front. Maybe its just my natural paranoia.

It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you. I'll come clean, I'm part of the Illuminati. Here to plant bad construction ideas in my own neighborhood. With my 10 Facebook followers in tow, we will rule this neighborhood with an iron fist and a heart of stone. I only drive a reasonably-priced sedan and go to my "job" every day as a mild-mannered non-profit administrator as a cover.

stbenjamin's picture

Kenzo wrote:
So, the theory goes... "nobody goes to zoning meetings when they're for zoning, so the room is filled with curmudgeon bats frothing at the mouth, afraid of change... so we want to put in a cheerleading squad into the room to give them the googly-eyes and most-likely, vote for the project. Unless of course it's a medical waste incinerator or a pawn shop, or something like that."

Yes?

It sounds more like a group to give people a heads up on zoning meetings and give projects a fair hearing. I've heard people say they don't show up for certain things because they assumed it wouldn't be controversial and it turned out it was (that could go for both yes and no votes). I know I have encouraged friends to come to zoning meetings when I thought the project might be a big deal and might get shot down for flimsy reasons (hence why I asked a few people to go to the Pez meeting, though no one I asked showed up :). I also had a friend encourage me to come to the Palm Market meeting, even though I don't live super close, since it impacted the neighbors a lot. I don't see what the problem is in formalizing what people already do in a FB group.

I am curious about one thing, FPDA. Who are you in real life? I didn't catch a name anywhere in this thread and am curious if you are someone people already know or not? Knowing that might give you a bit more credibility.

Coder's picture

FPDA wrote:
Coder wrote:
I don't know what it is, but it just doesn't seem square. Like there's some ulterior motive that's not coming to the fore front. Maybe its just my natural paranoia.

It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you. I'll come clean, I'm part of the Illuminati. Here to plant bad construction ideas in my own neighborhood. With my 10 Facebook followers in tow, we will rule this neighborhood with an iron fist and a heart of stone. I only drive a reasonably-priced sedan and go to my "job" every day as a mild-mannered non-profit administrator as a cover.

Well, you have a sense of humor, which goes pretty far with me. And I'm not as civically engaged as I should be, but could still turn into a mouth foaming curmudegonly bat at a moments notice. I'll trust Kenzo to keep his eye on you. lol.

"No no! You don't ask me questions! You are a rabbit! I am a human!"

fuzzybottoms's picture

stbenjamin wrote:
Kenzo wrote:
So, the theory goes... "nobody goes to zoning meetings when they're for zoning, so the room is filled with curmudgeon bats frothing at the mouth, afraid of change... so we want to put in a cheerleading squad into the room to give them the googly-eyes and most-likely, vote for the project. Unless of course it's a medical waste incinerator or a pawn shop, or something like that."

Yes?

It sounds more like a group to give people a heads up on zoning meetings and give projects a fair hearing. I've heard people say they don't show up for certain things because they assumed it wouldn't be controversial and it turned out it was (that could go for both yes and no votes). I know I have encouraged friends to come to zoning meetings when I thought the project might be a big deal and might get shot down for flimsy reasons (hence why I asked a few people to go to the Pez meeting, though no one I asked showed up :). I also had a friend encourage me to come to the Palm Market meeting, even though I don't live super close, since it impacted the neighbors a lot. I don't see what the problem is in formalizing what people already do in a FB group.

I am curious about one thing, FPDA. Who are you in real life? I didn't catch a name anywhere in this thread and am curious if you are someone people already know or not? Knowing that might give you a bit more credibility.

I'm all for getting the word out about zoning meetings. We really try to have the information as available as possible -- papers, flyering, multiple sites online. But to say that a pro-development group/association equates to a fair hearing is wrong. Coming in with any biases (whether pro- or anti-) is still biased. What we want is for people to come to all meetings with an open mind, not a mind that is already partially decided based on preconceptions, whatever they may be.

Kenzo's picture

I think some people haven't read FT.US's TOS page to understand that this is the sarcasm font.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

FPDA's picture

stbenjamin wrote:
Kenzo wrote:
So, the theory goes... "nobody goes to zoning meetings when they're for zoning, so the room is filled with curmudgeon bats frothing at the mouth, afraid of change... so we want to put in a cheerleading squad into the room to give them the googly-eyes and most-likely, vote for the project. Unless of course it's a medical waste incinerator or a pawn shop, or something like that."

Yes?

It sounds more like a group to give people a heads up on zoning meetings and give projects a fair hearing. I've heard people say they don't show up for certain things because they assumed it wouldn't be controversial and it turned out it was (that could go for both yes and no votes). I know I have encouraged friends to come to zoning meetings when I thought the project might be a big deal and might get shot down for flimsy reasons (hence why I asked a few people to go to the Pez meeting, though no one I asked showed up :). I also had a friend encourage me to come to the Palm Market meeting, even though I don't live super close, since it impacted the neighbors a lot. I don't see what the problem is in formalizing what people already do in a FB group.

I am curious about one thing, FPDA. Who are you in real life? I didn't catch a name anywhere in this thread and am curious if you are someone people already know or not? Knowing that might give you a bit more credibility.

This pretty much sums it up nicely, thanks!

In real life I moved to the neighborhood a few years ago. Grew up in a lower-middle class town in Jersey (yeah, I know, shut up) and I liked the family/neighborhood feel of Fishtown when the wife and I started looking to buy a home. My neighbors here and I feel like family (new renters, old-timers, young families, etc) and I can't imagine living anywhere else. I've wanted to get involved for some time, but the hectic nature of my life has prevented that up until fairly recently. As mentioned, I work in non-profits now but I've worked in manufacturing, construction, IT, and restaurant management in the past. If you've been to a recent meeting you may remember me as the guy who proposed the compromise on the Berks property and I have a penchant for referring to the parking situation as "Thunderdome". I'm in my early 30's, I have a small dog, a wife way out of my league, and I like long walks on the beach and a good book.

jbette01's picture

FPDA wrote:
Coder wrote:
I don't know what it is, but it just doesn't seem square. Like there's some ulterior motive that's not coming to the fore front. Maybe its just my natural paranoia.

It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you. I'll come clean, I'm part of the Illuminati. Here to plant bad construction ideas in my own neighborhood. With my 10 Facebook followers in tow, we will rule this neighborhood with an iron fist and a heart of stone. I only drive a reasonably-priced sedan and go to my "job" every day as a mild-mannered non-profit administrator as a cover.

I say this moreover as a neighbor than as an FNA member

I agree that there needs to be more people at zoning meetings. Bring on more informed, open minded individuals!

But saying you just want to incentivize the 'yes' votes when we pass 75% of projects, well, just doesnt make much sense to me. There have been plenty of contentious projects that have passed with landslides, ie Frankford Hall.

With that said -- why not just participate in FNA zoning as an individual and become a driving force to enourage more people to do so?

ps> yes, I think the logo is pretty neat.

Kenzo's picture

FPDA wrote:
non-profit administrator

Which type of non-profit?

A) Self-sustained, self-funded non-profits with their own fundraising arms that derive most of the funding from philanthropic, non-public sources? (i.e. March of Dimes, Red Cross, Race For the Cure, Project H.O.M.E., local town watch groups, etc.)

B ) Pat Freeland type leech non-profits that get most or all funding from public block grants and act as sycophants for public officers who steer those grants. (i.e. Citizens Alliance, Germantown Settlement, Spring Garden CDC, etc)

C ) Some mix between A and B, but mostly A.

D ) Some mix between A and B, but mostly B.

E ) It's B, but that's because it has to be B because the non-profit was established to get grant funding, and how DARE you accuse us of being sycophants for elected officials or legislators (i.e. CDCs, City Year, etc)

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

JedicusMaximus's picture

FPDA wrote:
I have a penchant for referring to the parking situation as "Thunderdome".

I always think of the parking arguements as the 'free' spot on a bingo card, no matter what issues related to parking will always come up. As I've jokingly mentioned to my wife, some people would seemingly object to a new parking lot because the curb cut would take out an existing parking space.

10011101

Kenzo's picture

You know what's funny about Fairmount? Sciaphobia actually trumps parking.

Sciaphobia == fear of shadows. If you dig through Wayback machine and look for the Barnes Tower... it was some serious cray cray. Fairmount's civic association went ape-dung over it even though the tower and the houses supposedly to be cast in permanent darkness forever weren't in the civic's catchment.

Seriously wonderful propaganda and leafleting... I've never seen people with PhDs and high-salary jobs engage in "burn-the-witch" fear mongering over a skyscraper before, but they were doing that, and drowning Vincent Fumo with calls begging him to do something (it got Fumo to make a direct call to the developer demanding him to shave off some floors off his tower). All this, and The Philadelphian has to be the ugliest thing in their neighborhood that casts a gigantic shadow because it's so wide, when the Barnes Tower was going to be this tall yet skinny building surrounded by a storefront pedestal and a quasi-public park for residents to add to the plethora of green space that they already have. The Philadelphian creates a huge wind tunnel effect that gives you arctic frostbite in the winter and makes it very unpleasant to walk near it.

And Fairmount hasn't had an available parking spot since 1973. If you propose anything over 6 floors over there, the pitchforks come out. And it's never over parking--it's always about the shadows.

Apparently the sun doesn't shine in Fairmount. (Maybe they need to cut down some of the trees???)

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

Scrambler's picture

Kenzo wrote:
You know what's funny about Fairmount? Sciaphobia actually trumps parking.

Sciaphobia == fear of shadows. If you dig through Wayback machine and look for the Barnes Tower... it was some serious cray cray. Fairmount's civic association went ape-dung over it even though the tower and the houses supposedly to be cast in permanent darkness forever weren't in the civic's catchment.

quote]
I think this a legitimate concern. I remember seeing a house on Fairmont Av across the the street from the large apartment building, don't remember the name of it.
The house never got any sun any time of the day. Always in shadows. I think living like that has a depressing effect on some people. Personally, I would not have wanted to live in that house. Or have my house going from getting some sun, to no sun, due to new construction.

Kenzo's picture

Which is precisely why, if I had a developer hat on, I would avoid Fairmount like the plague and let that neighborhood sit frozen in time, which is pretty much what has happened over there. That's caused development to shift over to Francisville and Brewerytown.

Hence areas like Kensington and Point Breeze have been getting the attention span of developers lately. In a way that intransigence over there helps us out.

P.S. the Best Western on 23rd Street was where the Barnes Tower was gonna go. So Fairmount will now be stuck with that fugly motel until the End of Days.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

FPDA's picture

jbette01 wrote:
FPDA wrote:
Coder wrote:
I don't know what it is, but it just doesn't seem square. Like there's some ulterior motive that's not coming to the fore front. Maybe its just my natural paranoia.

It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you. I'll come clean, I'm part of the Illuminati. Here to plant bad construction ideas in my own neighborhood. With my 10 Facebook followers in tow, we will rule this neighborhood with an iron fist and a heart of stone. I only drive a reasonably-priced sedan and go to my "job" every day as a mild-mannered non-profit administrator as a cover.

I say this moreover as a neighbor than as an FNA member

I agree that there needs to be more people at zoning meetings. Bring on more informed, open minded individuals!

But saying you just want to incentivize the 'yes' votes when we pass 75% of projects, well, just doesnt make much sense to me. There have been plenty of contentious projects that have passed with landslides, ie Frankford Hall.

With that said -- why not just participate in FNA zoning as an individual and become a driving force to enourage more people to do so?

ps> yes, I think the logo is pretty neat.

I'm participating as an individual as much as I can, but I want to try to encourage others. I do, of course, have a bias in that I'll vote yes if I don't have a really compelling reason not to and I want others with that same mindset to be at the meetings as well. If the statistics are what was stated, then I'm really not going to have much of an effect, and that's fine. I'm not being a huge advocate here, which is why I never posted any announcements here or tried to actively recruit anyone. It's more of a "hey, if you agree, thanks for joining, if not, that's cool, too" situation. I personally disagree to some of the objections I've heard in FNA meetings and I'd like to do what I can to make sure that those objections aren't the reason that good development gets stopped.

Kenzo wrote:
FPDA wrote:
non-profit administrator

Which type of non-profit?

A) Self-sustained, self-funded non-profits with their own fundraising arms that derive most of the funding from philanthropic, non-public sources? (i.e. March of Dimes, Red Cross, Race For the Cure, Project H.O.M.E., local town watch groups, etc.)

B ) Pat Freeland type leech non-profits that get most or all funding from public block grants and act as sycophants for public officers who steer those grants. (i.e. Citizens Alliance, Germantown Settlement, Spring Garden CDC, etc)

C ) Some mix between A and B, but mostly A.

D ) Some mix between A and B, but mostly B.

E ) It's B, but that's because it has to be B because the non-profit was established to get grant funding, and how DARE you accuse us of being sycophants for elected officials or legislators (i.e. CDCs, City Year, etc)

I do it for the children. For. The. Children.

I haven't worked for any group that you wouldn't feel comfortable donating to. Not that you would in some cases, because some have been trade associations while others have been charities. On a side note for the uninitiated, non-profits are, by far, the companies most concerned with profits of any place I've ever worked. Sure, they have good missions (mostly), but they're constantly up against a financial wall and act like it. Raising money is like going to war for these people.

sdm's picture

Kenzo wrote:
Which is precisely why, if I had a developer hat on, I would avoid Fairmount like the plague and let that neighborhood sit frozen in time, which is pretty much what has happened over there. That's caused development to shift over to Francisville and Brewerytown.

Hence areas like Kensington and Point Breeze have been getting the attention span of developers lately. In a way that intransigence over there helps us out.

P.S. the Best Western on 23rd Street was where the Barnes Tower was gonna go. So Fairmount will now be stuck with that fugly motel until the End of Days.

I've had some great times in that hotel's sports bar going back to when I was 17-18.

Neatly chiseled, well groomed, drop dead handsome face.

sandi

FPDA wrote:
I do it for the children. For. The. Children.

Hey, that's my line, my line. You stole my line!

"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, the excitement, and the mystery of the world we live in." --Rachel Carlson

lighterthief's picture

Fairmount is one of the crazy ones, NSCA too. From what I have seem FNA ORKA and EKNA are among the more reasonable civics when it comes to zoning.

Empty factories to the east and all our waste
The shape of things that came shows on the broken workers face

stbenjamin's picture

Kenzo wrote:
I think some people haven't read FT.US's TOS page to understand that this is the sarcasm font.

I keep forgetting about that, my bad.

And everyone comes in with biases. I come in with the bias that I am open to the IDEA of new development and am waiting to hear the particulars of the project at hand before I support it. If that is the mindset of this group, I support it. If it's a rubber stamp, then it isn't my thing.

roma258's picture

karp wrote:
FNA Zoning Records from 2006-2012 (note the years 2006-2008 are not completely digital but will be soon so there are some missing meetings)

Project Community Meetings
Support = 109 or 74%
Opposition = 36 or 25%
Even Vote = 2 or 1%
Informational = 7

Total Votes Cast
Support = 2388 or 66%
Opposition = 1248 or 34%

Again, we are still scanning and recording some of the paper records between 2006-08 so I cannot say that this is a 100% sample of all of our meetings. These percentages do appear accurate with our typical years worth of votes.

This data should show that while fishtown does vote on a project to project basis and the people who vote will change with the location, the votes are heavily on the support side for variances and ordinances.

Just want to say thank you for putting these up! I think I speak for all the stat geeks out there.

jbette01's picture

roma258 wrote:
karp wrote:
FNA Zoning Records from 2006-2012 (note the years 2006-2008 are not completely digital but will be soon so there are some missing meetings)

Project Community Meetings
Support = 109 or 74%
Opposition = 36 or 25%
Even Vote = 2 or 1%
Informational = 7

Total Votes Cast
Support = 2388 or 66%
Opposition = 1248 or 34%

Again, we are still scanning and recording some of the paper records between 2006-08 so I cannot say that this is a 100% sample of all of our meetings. These percentages do appear accurate with our typical years worth of votes.

This data should show that while fishtown does vote on a project to project basis and the people who vote will change with the location, the votes are heavily on the support side for variances and ordinances.

Just want to say thank you for putting these up! I think I speak for all the stat geeks out there.

We could use a stat geek to computerize the past records and then set up a good system moving forward...looking for a short term FNA project? We would love to have you!