Tetelestai

Some folks have said, "Shut up."
Time to take your own advice.

Just drop the crap about newbie v. oldie.
I'm not a lifer, but I also moved here before it became fashionable.
And it's sickening to see it come from either side.
And it's hell to see everybody beating each other up with the logs in their eyes as they try to reach over and pull the speck out of everybody else's.

I'm locking down the troublesome threads, and I will block anyone who continues this baloney.

And I hope, for the sake of a family that needs help, that some people will join a productive thread that both sides should be able to work together on.

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

Kat's picture

Thanks Dan. Those threads gave me a heartache.

JedicusMaximus's picture

Kat wrote:
Thanks Dan. Those threads gave me a heartache.

I Agree.

10011101

dan

Kat wrote:
Thanks Dan. Those threads gave me a heartache.

and a brain aneurysm

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

2014 york's picture

Just when you propose the idea of a dunking booth. I was so ready to buy tickets.

dan

2014 york wrote:
Just when you propose the idea of a dunking booth. I was so ready to buy tickets.

That could still go in a "let's solve the problem" thread. Unfortunately, such threads are rarely as popular as "let's insult each other" threads.

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

Lauraska's picture

2014 york wrote:
Just when you propose the idea of a dunking booth. I was so ready to buy tickets.

Don't worry, there will be plenty more opportunities for you to jump on the insult bandwagon. Just wait it out!

dan

Sadly, Laura's right.

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

2014 york's picture

No need for me to jump in on those discussions. There are plenty of folks that do a better job. Stein and Jake123 are the only people I enjoy insulting. Dan seems to allow a little wiggle room with Stein insults and I assume it's because he deserves it.

dan

Actually, I let a lot of stuff go by that I object to. All of it for months. This is the first time in a long time that I've cut off conversations - although there have been several times I've wanted to.

As far as the "stein" insults, I think they're mostly good-natured ribbing. We're pretty sure he not only knows, but relishes, that his way of presenting himself on the forum can be off-putting. That doesn't mean we don't sincerely want to wring his neck sometimes. It's kinda like a Homer-Bart thing.

I think that's how a lot of people view me too (except for the genuine affection part).

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

stein's picture

Using the royal "we" now, eh Dan?

Ken Milano (before he went and edited this comment out to avoid the consequences of having wrote it) wrote:
I don’t have much sympathy for renters, for me, they are non citizens

KingDingAling's picture

I definitely think the unoriginal and just plain boring insulters should be punished but nothing livens my day up more than a good ol' fashioned, well thought out, witty insult.

When the king speaks, fishtown.us would be wise to listen.

CrustyZombie's picture

wow what did I miss. I was just checking twitter on my phone and saw some tweets from some locals and had to get on the computer ASAP!

dan

stein wrote:
Using the royal "we" now, eh Dan?

It's good to be the king.

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

CrustyZombie's picture

I really hate Quizzo too, but wow, that was a little overboard there.

Kenzo's picture

OK... I haven't been reading much today because of meetings. But now that I just got home, popped open a beer and taking a breather before I have to do some client B/S...

I'm gunna tell y'all how the cow ate the cabbage.

This is a long post but you should read it. Maybe you will learn something.

See friends, I grew up in rural South Texas. The town didn't have a population bigger than 5K. The "ciddy" was over a half-hour drive away going 75MPH, provided you could drive that fast and there's no traffic. I'll share something with you newbies and you lifers that some of you probably don't want to hear.

Every community, especially ones that are thriving, have an aire of "us" vs. "them" in some aspects of life. For instance, where I grew up, there's the born-or-raised who both live AND work in the town vs. the "bedroom people," who drive to San Antonio to go to work and live where they do because they wanted a house and over 5 acres because they can't decide whether they wanna be Yuppies or Bubbas. Then you have Anglos vs. Hispanics. Then you have Anglos & Generational Hispanics (who stick together) vs. Green Cards and Just Got Here's.

I move here to "Suburban Fishtown" aka Kensington, from Mayfair, and I see a bit of the same thing going on here: SMALL MINDS. It's not that different from what I lived through in farm country, or the suburbs, and especially here in the city.

Now, I've lived in a variety of places in Philly. I have a lot of friends from different backgrounds. Some are broke- 'po, some are filthy rich, some are darlings, a few have seen the inside of a jail and it wasn't a tour of ESP, and some don't even live in the USA. I'm not a closed-minded guy. I try my best to understand where people are coming from because it's better to play it smooth because life's too short.

So here is some reality for all of you. Hegemony, which means "everything is the same", kills neighborhoods. Trying to achieve it, whether it's all one kind of people or all another kind of people, or all one type of construction vs. all one type of another construction; is not only an exercise in futility, it also sets you up for failure. Hegemony is BAD and it should be avoided whenever possible.

Ten years ago, the Oxford Circle/Castor Gardens section of Philadelphia, which I used to live next door to, was one neighborhood that just screamed with hegemony. Friends showed me pictures of their blocks when they lived in Oxford Circle in the 1990s, which wasn't that long ago: perfect little blocks of Airlites with perfect yards.

In the Northeast, and some of you are familiar with what MOST of the Lower Northeast looks like, is hegemony on a grand scale. Airlites and straight-thrus as far as the horizon, all built in a VERY short period of time, and heavily marketed to American G.I. families, created neighborhoods where almost all the heads of households were the same age range.

What has happened? You guys have read the Inquirer lately, right? In the 2000 Census and the 2010 Census, the majority of all the white families are gone. That ISN'T because they all got up and moved out. MOST of it is because the owners of the properties DIED. The kids didn't want to take the property and they set themselves up in Jersey long before their parents or grandparents kicked it, or they moved to Huntington Valley to buy a big McMansion where all the other slumlords who live close to the City reside, waiting to rent out grandma's house.

Because there wasn't a mix of age ranges to begin with, just about everyone's kids grew up around the same age brackets. That made for HUGE attendance at the public schools and over at Cardinal Dougherty High School. What's happened to Cardinal D? It's now a giant school north of Olney full of cobwebs. If you look at Roman and Father Judge, the kids who go there now live at greater distances from the schools than the kids of the 1960's. That's a function of consolidation.

The papers don't print this, but if you talk to the born-and-raised folks who are still around, that's precisely the backstory behind that neighborhood. Oxford Circle is now in transition and the rapid rate of home vacancies has created an oversupply that has to be filled by SOMEBODY. Those somebodies have turned out to be lower income minorities going into the rentals, and Latinos, Arabs and some Asians buying properties and then many more houses are stuck in estates because the family didn't have a will, so there is a problem with squatters and vacant housing.

Poverty and crime are linked (to what degree is a topic up for debate), but crime in Oxford Circle has gone way up in the last decade. That's a function of more of the blocks turning into rental. High disbursement of rental means people don't have skin in the game on their properties, their absentee landlords do.

Mayfair, which is across the Boulevard, is different for different reasons, but it has the highest per-capita senior population of all of Philadelphia's neighborhoods. Mayfair is a bit different because more of the children of the original homebuyers have taken over their parents' properties. But it's not at high enough rate to preserve home-ownership rates, especially not right now. There's also not enough developers renovating Mayfair airlites as houses become available.

New homeowners don't want a 60-year-old Mayfair 2 story airlite in original condition with purple carpet. Buying a home is one of Life's Biggest Decisions(TM) and the biggest investment most people will ever make in their life; and right now few people have sparked that "Bob Vila" interest in fixing up all the vacant Mayfair housing, but there's not enough survivors of original residents taking over their homesteads. That has created a feeling in Mayfair that has permeated among everyone that "Mayfair's Next".

With Oxford Circle being right next door, which is changing rapidly, that's increased the fear and it's not helping the homeownership rate.

So, back to Fishtown (finally!). We don't have the big hegemony problem like some of those areas in the Northeast which are going downhill. Yeah, this place was once a predominant Irish-Catholic area, and that presence is still here, but is that demographic capable of sustaining ALL of the housing units that are in our area? If it was, then there would not be a single vacant house anywhere in all of Fishtown or East Kensington. None.

Home-ownership has also been historically VERY high in Fishtown, and it still is even more so than before. And guess what? That's a function of both LIFERS AND NEWCOMERS.

The high homeownership rate Fishtown has with so many lifers keeping their properties in the family plus the strong desire for NEW BLOOD to pour into the neighborhood keeps Fishtown liveable. We are not a factory town anymore because all the factories picked up their bags and left before most of us younger than 50 were born. That economy died and it's not EVER going to come back.

So like a family that goes into bankruptcy, you have to pick it up and make something new. For parts of Kensington, the legitimate economy has been replaced with the drug economy. For Fishtown, the demographics panned out and the service economy in the City and construction has made Fishtown immune from the problems that destroyed big portions of Kensington. Fishtown's got the same problems, but nowhere near the severity.

Everyone take a look around on your block.

How many rowhome blocks in Fishtown are 100% Newcomer? How many rowhome blocks in Fishtown are 100% Lifer? If it's anything like I have observed being a new homeowner here, it's no different than ANYWHERE else I have experienced in Philadelphia that is thriving: there is a mix.

Even Northern Liberties, which is very small and doesn't have that many residents to start off with, has lifers. The new things are more visible down there South of us, but there's a mix. The only place I've ever seen that's 100% Newcomer are suburban track-housing developments. It gets built, then 1/4 of the homebuyers get move-up housing or move away because of life changes, the properties don't age that well so they don't keep up with the mod cons and fads of suburban yuppies, some stay because they're happy, some do home improvements instead of moving, and some upgrade their homes and sell to get more value. For those who remain, eventually, the original resident vs. newcomer mindset starts to slowly set in over the decades... like anywhere that is a thriving community.

Hell look at people like Kat. She's married to a lifer but she's from California.

Is that Fishtown's (sorry, Kensington's) first Intergenerational Marriage???!

This place would suck, plus it would be the butt of comments on Philly.com if Fishtown was a place that was 100% yuppie OR 100% lifer. Not only that, Fishtown would denigrate without people moving in from the outside.

[And some of you who classify yourselves as lifers are not born-and-raised... I know it because you've told me this. Don't walk it back now, friend!]

100% Yuppie - Oh yeah, I heard the Townies all exploded because 7-11 opened up and it doesn't sell rosemary paninis so they're threatening to throw a Molotov in the front window.

100% Lifer - Fishtown? Isn't that the place that's like Bridesburg where everyone marries their cousins or something and they never step past Girard because there's some chemical in their blood that if they stray too far away from Primo's they'll die?

So seriously. The next time you start to type or open your mouth about a lifer vs. newcomer rant, and you're not being joking--but you're actually pulling the Lifer Argument(TM) or the Newcomer Card(TM) out, all you're doing is putting your SMALL MIND on for display for the entire neighborhood to see.

That's not going to stop the jokes about Townies, or Kenzos for that matter, but still, if you can't master tact or you don't know how your audience will pick up your signals, then don't do it. I don't walk on PC eggshells, but I'm not going to call a particular person stupid because they're a lifer or a newcomer...

I'm gonna call 'em stupid because they're retarded and don't got all four burners goin', not because they're a newcomer or a lifer, or what income they got or who their momma is. God makes stupid in all colors.

And stupid certainly don't care where your momma gave birth to ya.

So, sorry for the long-winded post and sorry if my "Texan" came out... it does when I TRULY get agitated.

I hope this is the last time I have to waste a beer typing about this topic ever again.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

AM's picture

Well said Kenzo.

"Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone . . . "

Landj's picture

three cheers for kenzo!

we moved here in november, so were like the newest of the new, but i dont care. youd have to call us a fool for not finding a place smack dab in the middle of both of our families that we could afford! that has public transport. and good drinks. and good people. and good restaurants. and.. and... well, wait.. there is no more name calling. so, dont call me a fool. but, we did what we thought was right.

stein's picture

Hegemony does not mean everything is the same. You are probably looking for homogeneity/homogeneous

Also, fishtown wouldn't denigrate if new people weren't moving in. Disintegrate, maybe?

Ken Milano (before he went and edited this comment out to avoid the consequences of having wrote it) wrote:
I don’t have much sympathy for renters, for me, they are non citizens

Stock's picture

stein wrote:
Hegemony does not mean everything is the same. You are probably looking for homogeneity/homogeneous

Also, fishtown wouldn't denigrate if new people weren't moving in. Disintegrate, maybe?

Whatever stein. how long you been posting here? that's what I thought..

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

2014 york's picture

Can we institute a new rule about posts not being more than 100 words. Anything more should be posted as a link to a blog.

Stock's picture

2014 york wrote:
Can we institute a new rule about posts not being more than 100 words. Anything more should be posted as a link to a blog.

+1

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

ThatGirlWithTheFunkyGlasses's picture

Stock wrote:
2014 york wrote:
Can we institute a new rule about posts not being more than 100 words. Anything more should be posted as a link to a blog.

+1

Ugh.

Lauraska's picture

Amen, Kenzo.

Stupid is stupid, whether or not someone was raised here. I've met people with degrees from some of the best institutions in the country who were stupid. What I am reminded of during every election cycle is that there are far more stupid people out there than I can even imagine.

rinobio's picture

GUYS - put down the internet and breathe ................

austen's picture

Internet, I can't quit you.

Kenzo's picture

2014 york wrote:
Can we institute a new rule about posts not being more than 100 words. Anything more should be posted as a link to a blog.

No blogs on here and I'm too lazy to start a WordPress for a single story. Really, all I'm trying to get across is that being "a stick in the mud" as my folks call it, is just "ignunt", and no place that is a good place to live stays a good place to live for a long time because everybody there is the same age range, same background, same skin color, same housing, same religion, same everything because at some point something will happen naturally that upsets that little utopia.

Which is why I expect before too long, the blood-and-guts segments in the opening on Action 6
News will feature Point Breeze less often and will start featuring the place I talked about earlier, Oxford Circle, because it's transitioning rapidly from all middle-class/heavy homeownership to all low-income/high-rental, and it's happening at a high enough rate of speed that it's pretty easy even for short-timers to notice it.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

2014 york's picture

I really need to learn how to post pictures. Is it still some crazy bracket thing or does this new format make it easier?

tracey mccandless's picture

Kenzo thanks for your long intelligent post, Well Said

Tracey McCandless

sdm's picture

This is a debate I have always and will always stay out of. I love having a drink with old heads at the bar and hearing stories about the Riverwards, and I get the feeling they love having someone who wants to listen and is genuinely engaged. If it wasn't for this board I wouldn't even be aware of any sort of animosity between those who have been here and those who are now because I have been fortunate enough to have never experienced it IRL.

Neatly chiseled, well groomed, drop dead handsome face.

gauler's picture

Dan, Thanks for bring down the ban hammer on the unnecessary arguments. It just holds back everyone as a society and degrades everybody.

Kenzo well said. The other week there was some article on the Fishtown Star about how the locals have to teach the "Hipsters" about saving parking spaces when snow falls, making some mocking statements about their educations, etc. It made me so angry with rage that people still make this distinction not unlike the lifer, vs. noob argument. Its belittling, judgmental crap that for the narrow-minded jerks that believe they run this town.

If it wasn't for the new people coming in and buying up the properties, putting up new business in town, renovating these empty lots, continuing with cleaning up the streets initiatives, This little section of the world would stay stagnant and lack growth. Growth necessary to benefit the whole.

Im done with this whole ME ME ME attitude, and I for one appreciate the neighbors that have accepted me even though I was not born here. To that I say THANKS and Good night.

____________
Interrupted

tracey mccandless's picture

Ohh Thank you for single handedly saving us.. I am now bowing down to you and your godliness.. get over yourself. We are a strong neighborhood, Youve done some great things that is apparent and i thank you for that . But by no meanswere we Stagnant. Uncalled for

Tracey McCandless

tracey mccandless's picture

sdm wrote:
This is a debate I have always and will always stay out of. I love having a drink with old heads at the bar and hearing stories about the Riverwards, and I get the feeling they love having someone who wants to listen and is genuinely engaged. If it wasn't for this board I wouldn't even be aware of any sort of animosity between those who have been here and those who are now because I have been fortunate enough to have never experienced it IRL.
This ,y dear friends is the truth. This is the only place where this arguement continuesfrom my section of the world

Tracey McCandless

Kenzo's picture

gauler wrote:
Dan, Thanks for bring down the ban hammer on the unnecessary arguments. It just holds back everyone as a society and degrades everybody.

Kenzo well said. The other week there was some article on the Fishtown Star about how the locals have to teach the "Hipsters" about saving parking spaces when snow falls, making some mocking statements about their educations, etc. It made me so angry with rage that people still make this distinction not unlike the lifer, vs. noob argument. Its belittling, judgmental crap that for the narrow-minded jerks that believe they run this town.

If it wasn't for the new people coming in and buying up the properties, putting up new business in town, renovating these empty lots, continuing with cleaning up the streets initiatives, This little section of the world would stay stagnant and lack growth. Growth necessary to benefit the whole.

Im done with this whole ME ME ME attitude, and I for one appreciate the neighbors that have accepted me even though I was not born here. To that I say THANKS and Good night.

Well this applies everywhere. You need people who are planted in the neighborhood AND you need people who want to come in to keep a neighborhood stable and vibrant and a place where people want to live, not a place where people want to bolt from as soon as they finish school or a place where it's impossible to raise kids. And fact is... there have always been newcomers moving into Fishtown, the only thing that's changed is that the pattern accelerated because my generation and the next one down don't automatically head for the suburbs after they land a job.

The town I grew up in is expanding because the south side of San Antonio is recovering from the closure of Kelly/Lackland AFB and rapidly expanding. If it weren't for those newcomers looking to move into bedroom communities looking to live like a stereotypical Texan with their "micro-ranch", then my hometown wouldn't have gotten a fancy new hospital. When I grew up the hospital wasn't there, and if you got into a serious medial problem, you aid to be air-lifed into downtown SA-town, so that basically means the mortality rate is higher if you lived in that town because medical care was limited to the country doctor.

My parents have better access to doctors that they used to have to drive into the city to go visit. They can get a CAT scan, an MRI and PET where they live because there are radiologists living in-town. There were no such people in that profession living in that town 10 years ago. The hospital wouldn't have opened if the population couldn't support it, and the hospital is now a significant employer.

It's because of the newcomers that they're still capable of living where they do; which ironically has made it harder for me to convince them to relocate to PA.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

dan

sdm wrote:
If it wasn't for this board I wouldn't even be aware of any sort of animosity between those who have been here and those who are now because I have been fortunate enough to have never experienced it IRL.

Brilliant point. I've lived her almost 11 years, and I can say that I've only heard it expressed a few times IRL, compared to the many, many times it's expressed online. The reality is that both groups get along quite well day-to-day and folks generally have no clue who's from one group or the other in day-to-day interactions.

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

dan

The bottom line is that this neighborhood (like every place in the world) needs people who care about it and who are always looking to make it the best it can be.

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

CrustyZombie's picture

I'll just quote Rodney King here......well, do I even need to quote it?

brooke's picture

dan wrote:
sdm wrote:
If it wasn't for this board I wouldn't even be aware of any sort of animosity between those who have been here and those who are now because I have been fortunate enough to have never experienced it IRL.

Brilliant point. I've lived her almost 11 years, and I can say that I've only heard it expressed a few times IRL, compared to the many, many times it's expressed online. The reality is that both groups get along quite well day-to-day and folks generally have no clue who's from one group or the other in day-to-day interactions.

Ha--I heard it expressed to you about you once at an FNA meeting back in the day.

I think IRL it used to be expressed a lot more (I moved to Fishtown in 2003). Now it's seldom. In the beginning of last year, some woman near the corner of Montgomery and Memphis chirped at me when I was showing a house, "We don't need any more of you realtors coming in and selling our homes." I said, "I'm not 'coming in'; I live around the corner and your husband lets your dog play with my dogs all the time when I walk them." It was funny. But that was the first anti-gentrification remark I had experienced in person in years.

Former attorney and current CITYSPACE real estate agent extraordinaire

Kenzo's picture

brooke wrote:
"We don't need any more of you realtors coming in and selling our homes."

Strange remark. Last I checked, if I wanted to sell my home I can do it FSBO and put a sale sign on my front windows.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

sdm's picture

brooke wrote:
dan wrote:
sdm wrote:
If it wasn't for this board I wouldn't even be aware of any sort of animosity between those who have been here and those who are now because I have been fortunate enough to have never experienced it IRL.

Brilliant point. I've lived her almost 11 years, and I can say that I've only heard it expressed a few times IRL, compared to the many, many times it's expressed online. The reality is that both groups get along quite well day-to-day and folks generally have no clue who's from one group or the other in day-to-day interactions.

Ha--I heard it expressed to you about you once at an FNA meeting back in the day.

I think IRL it used to be expressed a lot more (I moved to Fishtown in 2003). Now it's seldom. In the beginning of last year, some woman near the corner of Montgomery and Memphis chirped at me when I was showing a house, "We don't need any more of you realtors coming in and selling our homes." I said, "I'm not 'coming in'; I live around the corner and your husband lets your dog play with my dogs all the time when I walk them." It was funny. But that was the first anti-gentrification remark I had experienced in person in years.

Good point, I'm sure attitudes on both sides were a lot different a decade ago.

Neatly chiseled, well groomed, drop dead handsome face.

phillygirl1267's picture

gauler wrote:
If it wasn't for the new people coming in and buying up the properties, putting up new business in town, renovating these empty lots, continuing with cleaning up the streets initiatives, This little section of the world would stay stagnant and lack growth. Growth necessary to benefit the whole.

This statement is complete BS, I was born and raised here and believe me I do not think that the new people came to Fishtown and saved it, we were not stagnant and would never be, I don't care for your hip coffee shops and eateries, but thats MY opinion! That being said, I also don't care who lives here lifers or newbies, it doesnt matter, as long as everyone takes care of their homes, children etc... I am happy.

ThatGirlWithTheFunkyGlasses's picture

brooke wrote:
dan wrote:
sdm wrote:
If it wasn't for this board I wouldn't even be aware of any sort of animosity between those who have been here and those who are now because I have been fortunate enough to have never experienced it IRL.

Brilliant point. I've lived her almost 11 years, and I can say that I've only heard it expressed a few times IRL, compared to the many, many times it's expressed online. The reality is that both groups get along quite well day-to-day and folks generally have no clue who's from one group or the other in day-to-day interactions.

Ha--I heard it expressed to you about you once at an FNA meeting back in the day.

I think IRL it used to be expressed a lot more (I moved to Fishtown in 2003). Now it's seldom. In the beginning of last year, some woman near the corner of Montgomery and Memphis chirped at me when I was showing a house, "We don't need any more of you realtors coming in and selling our homes." I said, "I'm not 'coming in'; I live around the corner and your husband lets your dog play with my dogs all the time when I walk them." It was funny. But that was the first anti-gentrification remark I had experienced in person in years.

Yeah, I have also been here since 2003, and I think I was called a yuppie once IRL which just cracked me up anyway because I grew up on the edge of NE Philly, my dad was a Septa bus driver, and we were a lower middle class family that had to accept food and clothing donations sometimes. I don't need to worry about anyone and what they think I am or am not.

I think it's easier for people to have animosity behind the anonymity of a message board.

Ugh.

stein's picture

ThatGirlWithTheFunkyGlasses wrote:
I think I was called a yuppie once IRL which just cracked me up anyway because I grew up on the edge of NE Philly, my dad was a Septa bus driver, and we were a lower middle class family that had to accept food and clothing donations sometimes.

Nothing about one's upbringing disqualifies one from being a yuppie.

Ken Milano (before he went and edited this comment out to avoid the consequences of having wrote it) wrote:
I don’t have much sympathy for renters, for me, they are non citizens

codergrrl's picture

Friggin lifers, ruin it for all of us.

"Je Suis Prest"

Kenzo's picture

phillygirl1267 wrote:
gauler wrote:
If it wasn't for the new people coming in and buying up the properties, putting up new business in town, renovating these empty lots, continuing with cleaning up the streets initiatives, This little section of the world would stay stagnant and lack growth. Growth necessary to benefit the whole.

This statement is complete BS, I was born and raised here and believe me I do not think that the new people came to Fishtown and saved it, we were not stagnant and would never be, I don't care for your hip coffee shops and eateries, but thats MY opinion! That being said, I also don't care who lives here lifers or newbies, it doesnt matter, as long as everyone takes care of their homes, children etc... I am happy.

Fishtown has never needed to be "saved". But you cannot say the same thing about Kensington with a straight face.

But the fact remains, you cannot run an insular community without fresh blood picking up properties. Name a community that can pull that off other than on-base military housing. Fishtown families do pick up properties but they can't absorb all the ones that come available. So if there's not people picking them off and maintaining them, you have decay. Fact.

Fact is... Fishtown is not insular and it never was. Yeah there's 5th/6th generation people here, but pick any number... say 1977--there were outsiders who moved into properties here back then.

Fishtown isn't dominated by one particular age group so it doesn't have a generational problem like say, Mayfair does where a majority of the residents share the same generational bracket. Oxford Circle was even more polarized like that and as you can see, you can't keep up that ubiquity forever.

On the advice of someone who probably queened-out, this signature has been deleted.

Atomic Larry's picture

Kenzo for mayor. that was awesome bro.

I used to get called a yuppie all the time and I grew up here... well port richmond actually, but whatever. I guess i am urban and sort of professional but I'm not so young anymore. Is there such a thing as an Ouppie?

dan

Kenzo wrote:
brooke wrote:
"We don't need any more of you realtors coming in and selling our homes."

Strange remark. Last I checked, if I wanted to sell my home I can do it FSBO and put a sale sign on my front windows.

Reminds me of a certain realtor's famous story about the parent selling their home. The rough dialog:

Seller: "It's such a shame that home prices have gotten so high in the neighborhood. My son can't even afford to get a place here any more."
Realtor: "I appreciate you listing your home with me, but I'm wondering - if that's important to you, maybe you should sell your house to your child instead."
Seller: "Are you kidding? My kid can't afford $300,000 for a house."

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

dan

phillygirl1267 wrote:
gauler wrote:
If it wasn't for the new people coming in and buying up the properties, putting up new business in town, renovating these empty lots, continuing with cleaning up the streets initiatives, This little section of the world would stay stagnant and lack growth. Growth necessary to benefit the whole.

This statement is complete BS, I was born and raised here and believe me I do not think that the new people came to Fishtown and saved it, we were not stagnant and would never be, I don't care for your hip coffee shops and eateries, but thats MY opinion! That being said, I also don't care who lives here lifers or newbies, it doesnt matter, as long as everyone takes care of their homes, children etc... I am happy.

New people moving in changes the neighborhood. Whether for better or worse or about the same depends on what you experience and value. I appreciate that it means a lot less abandoned houses (especially around the edges of the neighborhood) and more hands for things like street clean-ups. This probably means less to somebody who lives in the center of the neighborhood where there were less boarded-up buildings and the streets have somewhat less litter. It also means a broadening of the set of skill sets available for community projects. On the negative side it has brought some tensions which didn't exist in the neighborhood before. Additionally, it means that many of my friends who were renters could no longer afford to live in the neighborhood and have had to move away.

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

jbette01's picture

I dunno, all you have to do is come to a zoning meeting to see and hear the 'you people' being thrown around.

With that said, I have this amazing neighbor with a killer mullet who is always at the good time tavern. We dig out cars together when it snows. Whenever I see him he yells 'WHATS UP GIRL' loud as hell which I find hysterical. Best part is that I bumped into him at Trenton Ave Arts Fest last year and we nearly died laughing seeing each other there.

I wish more of the beer and shot places didnt have smoking, I'd like to rub elbows over lagers more often.

th's picture

jbette01 wrote:
I have this amazing neighbor with a killer mullet

The guy in your avatar picture?

You wanna dance? LET'S DANCE!

Jordan's picture

HA! HA! I MOVED HERE FROM THE PHILLY SUBURBS BECAUSE IT WAS COOL AND TRENDY!

No, really, I did.

A. Jordan Rushie
Attorney and Counselor at Law
2424 East York Street, Suite 316
Philadelphia, PA 19125 215.385.LAW1 (5291)
Blog: www.phillylawblog.com
Website: www.fishtownlaw.com

Neilpuck's picture

I moved here to save the neighborhood.

*cape blowing in the breeze*

codergrrl's picture

th wrote:
jbette01 wrote:
I have this amazing neighbor with a killer mullet

The guy in your avatar picture?

I keep thinking I know that guy, but I don't. Is he a ex-Phillie or something?

"Je Suis Prest"

dan

Neilpuck wrote:
I moved here to save the neighborhood.

Well, I sort of did too.
Or at least as to work the street team for somebody who can.

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

Matt Benatar's picture

I moved here because my friends (including Gauler who was the first of us) that were homeowners bought here, the houses were an appropriate size with yards, there was a short walk to the train, the crime was low, and property values were expected to rise rather than bottom out.
Anyway, what about making fun of people North of York? That's still cool, right? If not, I'm happy to make up lies about residents of Northern Liberties. That has to be acceptable.

Love is a Mattlefield.

jeffro's picture

"Not only that, Fishtown would denigrate without people moving in from the outside."

"If it wasn't for the new people coming in and buying up the properties, putting up new business in town, renovating these empty lots, continuing with cleaning up the streets initiatives, This little section of the world would stay stagnant and lack growth. Growth necessary to benefit the whole. "

Gross. This thread has disintegrated through denigration. the whole thing goes round and round and comes back to insults. I'm done with this horsesh**. Some days, I come to this website and I am glad I can't afford to buy a house in this place where I grew up and love so much. Of course, none of this anger and yelling exists in the real world. It's only loud on the computer.

th's picture

Hey Jeffro, can you start another thread with your drawings? It was a real shame that thread disappeared with the old site.

I never commented on them much, but I enjoyed looking at them.

You wanna dance? LET'S DANCE!

bozoloper's picture

th wrote:
Hey Jeffro, can you start another thread with your drawings? It was a real shame that thread disappeared with the old site.

I never commented on them much, but I enjoyed looking at them.

i'll definitely second that.

there's a fool on every corner when you're trying to get home.

Pure_Fishtown's picture

Jeff, I still have a copy of the drawing you did for the pimple ball on my wall in the office.

FREE Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

th's picture

Ok, so back on topic:

IT ENDS NOW.
NO, WAIT ... NOW.
OK, REALLY, IT ENDS NOW.
I MEAN NOW.
OK, OK, BUT REALLY, IT REALLY ENDS NOW.

NOW.

You wanna dance? LET'S DANCE!

stbenjamin's picture

jeffro wrote:
"Not only that, Fishtown would denigrate without people moving in from the outside."

"If it wasn't for the new people coming in and buying up the properties, putting up new business in town, renovating these empty lots, continuing with cleaning up the streets initiatives, This little section of the world would stay stagnant and lack growth. Growth necessary to benefit the whole. "

Gross. This thread has disintegrated through denigration. the whole thing goes round and round and comes back to insults. I'm done with this horsesh**. Some days, I come to this website and I am glad I can't afford to buy a house in this place where I grew up and love so much. Of course, none of this anger and yelling exists in the real world. It's only loud on the computer.

I didn't interpret Kenzo's words as us/them, new/old but more unless the people who grew up here are having enough kids who stick around and replace the population that dies, moves away etc.. then by definition you need new blood to keep the neighborhood from turning into Detroit.

Also, I pretty much moved here when it was trendy, but I do love the place. I plan to stick around for a long, long time.

dan

Given Kenzo's other posts, I also read what he posted as saying "Other neighborhoods in the city have tried to discourage change and that ended up causing change that was more rapid and generally negative." However, I can see how what he wrote could be ambiguous and also taken to mean "This place was going downhill and the newbies saved it." I'm pretty darn sure Chris meant the former, not the latter.

Godwin was basically a Nazi.

dan

th wrote:
Ok, so back on topic:

IT ENDS NOW.
NO, WAIT ... NOW.
OK, REALLY, IT ENDS NOW.
I MEAN NOW.
OK, OK, BUT REALLY, IT REALLY ENDS NOW.

NOW.

:)

Godwin was basically a Nazi.