Who do you think is responsible for the recent factory fire?

The Owners
13% (12 votes)
L&I
1% (1 vote)
The Neighbors
2% (2 votes)
Owners + L&I
80% (73 votes)
Owners + Neighbors
0% (0 votes)
All Three (Owners, L&I, Neighbors)
3% (3 votes)
Total votes: 91

Comments

Susquehanna's picture

where's "the crackheads who started it" option?

Pure_Fishtown's picture

Crackhead wouldn't of gotten in there if the owners did what was their responsibility and L&I did their job.

lighterthief's picture

Owners are responsible for maintaining private property, we are all responsible for our actions as they impact others.

The City is responsible for ensuring that public safety is maintained. This is the basis of our urban culture and civilization.

Public officials are paid with our taxes to protect our interests. They failed here, they fail often.

The neighborhood in this case did their civic duty reported through the system etc

It was the City's job to protect us and to protect the firemen from having to risk and loose their lives in an unnecessary tragedy

Lauraska's picture

I'm curious as to who thinks the neighbors are responsible, even as part of a group with L&I and the Owners.

stbenjamin's picture

Lauraska wrote:
I'm curious as to who thinks the neighbors are responsible, even as part of a group with L&I and the Owners.

Seriously, what else could the neighbors have done besides patrol the property or seal it themselves (along with every other derelict property in the area)

sandi

Lauraska wrote:
I'm curious as to who thinks the neighbors are responsible, even as part of a group with L&I and the Owners.

That was me. I figured hindsight is always 20/20, and it must have been "neighbors" i.e. vagrants or hooligans who helped spark the fire. [I was being quite literal when I chose the latter, I tend to go for pure facts, that's the science geek in me] I am certain, some people are wishing they would have done just one thing more, although this community in general is one of the most responsible, responsive, and involved (the humanity is overwhelming), that I have ever known. It's not the neighbors on here that are responsible. It could potentially be the ones who didn't care, didn't report, or didn't parent in some cases... I appologize if this offended anyone.

Leo's picture

As furious as I am with L&I, they were working within their "system". While that "system" is garbage, they're constrained by it until it changes. They're a government agency and a product of their own bureaucracy. (That bureaucracy sucks, btw).

Hopefully we can change their poor system in the wake of this tragedy.

Stock's picture

Stan locked it on his own actually. Just found out tonight that he had a key to the pad lock that HE put on there to keep people out.

jbette01's picture

Stock wrote:
Stan locked it on his own actually. Just found out tonight that he had a key to the pad lock that HE put on there to keep people out.

Stan is the best

Pure_Fishtown's picture

Bumping this up. Dan has posted on another site that all votes made by 10PM TONIGHT will be announced on Action News at 11PM.

austen's picture

Pure_Fishtown wrote:
Bumping this up. Dan has posted on another site that all votes made by 10PM TONIGHT will be announced on Action News at 11PM.

Link please!

Pure_Fishtown's picture

It is on the left hand side of the main page of Fishtown.us

austen's picture

Sorry. Wasn't sure if it was this poll.

Kenzo's picture

Stan, Jeff, I think Me, possibly my bud Adam, and Dan will all be featured on the 11 o' clock.

We are in the right. I'm sorry City of Philadelphia, you are not going to win this Denial-A-Thon. No way.

sandi

Who else voted all three? I'm not the only brazen/controversial one?

Matt Benatar's picture

Lookin' handsome, Dan! Were those shoes you were wearing?

2014 york's picture

Kenzo wrote:
Stan, Jeff, I think Me, possibly my bud Adam, and Dan will all be featured on the 11 o' clock.

We are in the right. I'm sorry City of Philadelphia, you are not going to win this Denial-A-Thon. No way.

I think our story got Santorumed a bit. The news cycle moves on. Hopes that this event will have any lasting change are quickly fading.

Kenzo's picture

There is talk of a vigil being planned on Friday.

Heh, you know tomorrow I have a meeting at Abernathy's office about bandit signs. It almost feels like a phyrric victory now.

dan

Matt Benatar wrote:
Lookin' handsome, Dan! Were those shoes you were wearing?

Yep. I have a pair!

Coder's picture

Nice couple of paragraphs on Philebrity as well.

Kat's picture

Nice! "Denialathon" ...awesome.

steveeboy's picture

again, the owners are prominent hasids who own a newspaper in Brooklyn. Seems to me some phone calls, ltes, emails, etc are in order.

While I am not 100% sure, I am guessing that the Torah does not support criminal negligence, slum lord-ism, tax cheats, etc.

These guys are rich religious leaders who have made a habit of ignoring the law.

they should held to account in their own community.

If one wants to hold a vigil, we should probably get on the china town bus and head up to brooklyn and let people there know what the "Rabbi" is up to in Philly.

I am sure there would be some local firefighters ready to assist.

Coder's picture

Wouldn't Brooklyn have some local papers, like our City Paper, or Phila. Weekly, who might be interested in the story. Might be worth investigating.
Not so easy to hide up there, if the people up there are in on what you're doing.

lighterthief's picture

The Hasidim are very insular and will likely take criticism of one of their leaders from outsiders as an attack on their community.

The rest of Brooklyn though may be less likely to give them a pass

http://blogs.jta.org/telegraph/article/2010/01/26/1010333/hasidim-vs-biker-controversy-continues

Coder's picture

Very familiar with the Hasidim. You'll never affect them through their own.

sdm's picture

lighterthief wrote:
The Hasidim are very insular and will likely take criticism of one of their leaders from outsiders as an attack on their community.

Who cares? Their feelings are completely irrelevant.

austen's picture

Becuase they'll make it an anti-Semitic thing, when it's actually not. It's actually a common decency thing.

lighterthief's picture

sdm wrote:
lighterthief wrote:
The Hasidim are very insular and will likely take criticism of one of their leaders from outsiders as an attack on their community.

Who cares? Their feelings are completely irrelevant.

oh i don't care how the feel just don't expect them to care or in any way accept blame

stein's picture

Coder wrote:
Nice couple of paragraphs on Philebrity as well.

could have done without the anti-semitism myself.

steveeboy's picture

yes, that was a bit weird.

I did not think that "jewish lightning" was an acceptable term.

OTOH, I am amazed at the proclivity of prominent religious leaders, regardless of sect, to be so involved in worldly pursuits...

Then again, I guess when you are exempt from taxes, exempt from military service (in Israel), etc. It may become a habit to avoid the responsibilities of other citizens.

stein's picture

It isn't and the first definition at the urban dictionary page that is linked specifically links to it to the pejorative stereotype of jews loving money. Why would you go out of your way to use that term?

Pure_Fishtown's picture
steveeboy's picture

stuff like this really rubs me the wrong way:

"According to the city, New York developers Michael and Yechiel Lichtenstein owe Philadelphia nearly $386,000 in taxes on 30 properties.

Carmen Delgado, an out of work mother of 4, was startled to hear her landlords own the ill-fated warehouse.

Or that YML owes nearly $5,000 in back taxes on her rental.

It all came as a shock, because she says YML hauled her into court just a few weeks ago when she fell about $900 behind in rent."

steveeboy's picture

the city should tell the tenants to pay the rent to an escrow account and then garnish it all until the taxes are paid and all of the properties are brought up to code.

Pure_Fishtown's picture

steveeboy wrote:
stuff like this really rubs me the wrong way:

"According to the city, New York developers Michael and Yechiel Lichtenstein owe Philadelphia nearly $386,000 in taxes on 30 properties.

Carmen Delgado, an out of work mother of 4, was startled to hear her landlords own the ill-fated warehouse.

Or that YML owes nearly $5,000 in back taxes on her rental.

It all came as a shock, because she says YML hauled her into court just a few weeks ago when she fell about $900 behind in rent."

That's the part that hit me! These guys are just scum.

Coder's picture

"Do unto others", and do again, and again, and again, and again....
They go right into the "I have sinned" Baptist preacher pile, down there in that back left hand corner of hell.

steveeboy's picture

according to this website, there may be a reason these guys don't pay their taxes.

http://www.jlaw.com/Commentary/payingtaxes.html

Matt Benatar's picture

steveeboy wrote:
the city should tell the tenants to pay the rent to an escrow account and then garnish it all until the taxes are paid and all of the properties are brought up to code.

Very agreeable.

Leo's picture

steveeboy wrote:
stuff like this really rubs me the wrong way:

"According to the city, New York developers Michael and Yechiel Lichtenstein owe Philadelphia nearly $386,000 in taxes on 30 properties.

Carmen Delgado, an out of work mother of 4, was startled to hear her landlords own the ill-fated warehouse.

Or that YML owes nearly $5,000 in back taxes on her rental.

It all came as a shock, because she says YML hauled her into court just a few weeks ago when she fell about $900 behind in rent."

I've seen this before - though maybe not to the same extent as the Bros Lichtenstein. This is why I like suing bad landlords and defending good tenants.

dan

steveeboy wrote:
according to this website, there may be a reason these guys don't pay their taxes.

http://www.jlaw.com/Commentary/payingtaxes.html

To be clear, it says there is an attitude among some that it is acceptable.
However, the article makes it clear that it's unacceptable.

Kenzo's picture

steveeboy wrote:
yes, that was a bit weird.

I did not think that "jewish lightning" was an acceptable term.

OTOH, I am amazed at the proclivity of prominent religious leaders, regardless of sect, to be so involved in worldly pursuits...

Then again, I guess when you are exempt from taxes, exempt from military service (in Israel), etc. It may become a habit to avoid the responsibilities of other citizens.

Yeah I know you got mad at the Philebrity piece. I didn't even know the term existed until I saw it bandied about on Facebook.

My response will be printed on Philebrity's page within the hour.

steveeboy's picture

no man, I wasn't mad, it just set off my PC detector-- and I thought it would leave you open to the charge (which Stein then brought up.)

I realize this can be a minefield of a discussion due to historic anti-semitism and such.

This article discusses a lot of pertinent info on the topic:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-12-08/news/religious-slumlord

Kenzo's picture

Ahh... I was about to say... this would be an interesting topic of discussion:

"Chris, the gay anti-semite closet-heterosexual, who works in an office surrounded on 3 sides by Jewish co-workers, has a Jewish boss, and a Jewish ex-boyfriend living in Chelsea in Manhattan."

I told you people I was a weird bird before I moved to this neighborhood.

P.S. another term that I absolutely love, and my boss swears he coined it (he's in a mixed marriage to a Catholic). "Cashews", the children of mixed faith Hebrew/Catholic marriages.

Using it in a sentence is fun. "The cashiews think think their parents are nuts!"

I'll be here next week. Try the veal.

Kenzo's picture

By the way, not to defend the Lichtensteins... but the area's worst slumlord EVER was a Plastic Paddy.

(I'm speaking with my 8-generations removed Protestant Ulster Unionist hat on)

p.s. who's going to his Federal trial next month with me? Lauraska? collins?

steveeboy's picture

I recommend you do NOT resort to the "some of my best friends/lovers/co-workers/family members are jews" defense.

and stick to the facts here, you are doing great work with the google doc stuff.

Something the city should have done long ago.

these policies need to be changed--if they cannot serve the subpoena the case is just dropped?!?!?!?!?!

and tenants need to be able to put money into escrow if they are dealing with a slum lord.

Kenzo's picture

steveeboy wrote:
I recommend you do NOT resort to the "some of my best friends/lovers/co-workers/family members are jews" defense.

and stick to the facts here, you are doing great work with the google doc stuff.

Something the city should have done long ago.

these policies need to be changed--if they cannot serve the subpoena the case is just dropped?!?!?!?!?!

and tenants need to be able to put money into escrow if they are dealing with a slum lord.

Actually I just changed my mind. A retort will just turn into a Stein-esque exercise in the pedantic. Best response is none.

Kenzo's picture

Stupid Question Time:

What would it take to get this crap in the news cycle in the New York media? You know... to get the shame game going on the Lichtenstein clan on their own turf in New York?

Pure_Fishtown's picture

Kenzo wrote:
Stupid Question Time:

What would it take to get this crap in the news cycle in the New York media? You know... to get the shame game going on the Lichtenstein clan on their own turf in New York?

I wish I knew, I spent a good part of yesterday searching the Brooklyn papers and didn't see crap. At least it made the USA Today.

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